Trump Lays Groundwork To Ban Mandatory Vaccinations Across U.S.

Trump has created a division within the Health and Human Services Office for Civil Rights, in order to ban mandatory vaccinations.

President Trump has created a new division within the Health and Human Services Office for Civil Rights, with the express purpose of banning mandatory vaccinations across the country, and ensuring citizens have a right to choose their own healthcare.

With the establishment of the Conscience and Religious Freedom Division division on Thursday, Trump has laid the groundwork to dismantle each and every vaccine mandate across the country. Big Pharma’s chokehold on the nation’s health has been released.

If you don’t think this new division at the Health and Human Services Office is a big deal, it’s time to think again.

The Conscience and Religious Freedom Division gives many different groups a big tent under which to fight for our constitutional rights. Christians and libertarians, as well as freethinkers and people of other religious faiths, have a common interest in fighting against Big Pharma’s corrupt health establishment.

Mainstream media are desperate to keep this news quiet. They don’t want you to know that the president is working to ensure American citizens have a right to choose their own healthcare.

Pharmaceutical companies provide mainstream media outlets with a huge percentage of their advertising revenue. Big pharmaceutical companies actually spend far more on advertising than research. We are talking hundreds of billions of dollars.

Here’s why this is such a BIG DEAL

Per BolenReport: The House Majority Leader, Kevin McCarthy (R – California) is one of the key figures who got this project over the line. Do you think he is unaware of the draconian mandatory vaccine law in California which took away religious and philosophical (conscience) exemptions?

This new division at HHS is a home run for all those who believe in liberty and health freedom.

In a press release put out on Thursday by the HHS Office for Civil Rights, Director Roger Severino said,

Law protecting religious freedom and conscience rights are just empty words on paper if they aren’t enforced.  No one should be forced to choose between helping sick people and living by one’s deepest moral or religious convictions, and the new division will help guarantee that victims of unlawful discrimination find justice.  For too long, governments big and small have treated conscience claims with hostility instead of protection, but change is coming and it begins here and now.

In an article for TownHall, House Majority Leader, Kevin McCarthy was very explicit.

“In the past this office sent the message, now is not the time for freedom, it is time for you to conform.  What a difference one year makes.”

Dr. Everett Piper of Oklahoma Wesleyan University echoed these comments and brought a laugh to the group by noting what a difference it was to be thanking Health and Human Services rather than suing them.

[RELATED: CDC Doctor: ‘Disastrous’ Flu Shot Causing Deadly Flu Epidemic]

The acting Health and Human Services Secretary, Eric Hargan, also had some remarkable words:

“For too long too many of these healthcare practitioners have been bullied and discriminated against because of their religious beliefs and moral convictions leaving many of them to wonder whether they have a future in our healthcare system.  When faithful Americans are bullied out of the public square and out of public service, when bigotry is allowed to flourish, we all lose.”

The new website for the Conscience and Religious Freedom Division even has a convenient portal to file a complaint and they are encouraging anybody who feels their religious rights or conscience have been violated to file a complaint.

What about all those California parents living under the mandatory childhood vaccine law?  Aren’t their religious and conscience rights being violated?

President Trump has given us a tool to use against tyranny.  My dear brothers and sisters, it is time to pick up this weapon and use it against our common enemy.

Baxter Dmitry

Baxter Dmitry

Baxter Dmitry is a writer at Your News Wire. He covers politics, business and entertainment. Speaking truth to power since he learned to talk, Baxter has travelled in over 80 countries and won arguments in every single one. Live without fear.
Follow: @baxter_dmitry
Baxter Dmitry


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          • I’m blocking the ***. Just getting her jollies from going back a month to post nasty comments. Must have a prom coming up that she needs to save up to buy a lot of whisky and *** for. The shill factory has been reduced to recruiting the bottom feeders. No, wait, they’ve always done that. Well, you get my drift.

          • She blocked me because I outdid her in the insult department. Encountered her in the past under another puppet name, was as vulgar and ignorant then as now. A few bricks shy of a load.

          • But what a great gig, just look up any comment by someone damaged by vaccines, no matter how old, and put up a spam insult, always the same for all of them. I could really rake it in were I as vile as she is.

          • This is her..or him. copy and I don’t think you can paste all her insults to this news editor. It is worth a try. There is a fine line with having a discussion or being rude & crude. Have a great day, ya’ll.
            Family just got over Flu b here. It was not that bad…now we have allergy season now. The lab tests confirmed flu b. I got tested yesterday because I had a sore throat for 2 days, negative for strep and flu. Whew…

          • Thanks, I copied it, but I don’t think she’s worth the time.
            I had an echinacea spray for sore throats that was really miraculous! Hope you all get well soon!

          • Information worth sharing: Read reviews on WebMd for Oscillococinum.
            I have used this product since 1989, no flu ever since. brand used is Boron, this probably matters.
            For cold symptoms: Wellness Herbal Resistance™ Liquid
            with Echinacea, Coptis & Yin Chiao Immune Support with high percentage of success for all friends and family.

          • Thanks, totally agree! Oscillococcinum is effective, also the specific year’s formulation of influenzinum. I have Randall Neustaedter’s The Flu Guide, and it has good individual remedy symptoms. Mine has been bryonia so far, and it stopped my flu the same night seven years ago when I needed to go to a funeral the next day. Dr. Neustaedter also recommends Yin Chiao.

          • Oscillococcinum is effective

            But why? Putting aside that homoepathic remedies have no active ingredient. Why would duck liver and offal be useful at curing anything? Yes, I know you don’t know but shouldn’t that be something of a red flag?

            Yin Chiao

            *sigh* Dr. Neustaedter — who proudly carries the designation OMD (Oriental Medicine Doctor) somehow not realizing that with all his respect for Chinese medicine the term “oriental” is often considered offensive — doesn’t appear to have any education in Chinese. I find it interesting that you put your faith in someone who can’t even read the modern texts on the subject. He would have no idea, even reading the label if he was looking at a correctly prepared mixture. This can be seen in this claim that any Yin Qiao (also would it kill you to actually learn pinyin? Writing something the way it sounds to your ear is ambiguous) mixture is adequate for any symptom.

            Again this should be a red flag to tell you that this is all nonsense.

          • Sad for you, My evidence came from people who used it and found healing when their allopathic medical doctors could not help them. Must just be another mystery of how the universe works that your science has yet to understand.

          • I am Sad

            You’re not just sad…you are “Captial S” sad. That’s pretty sad.

            My evidence came from people who used it and found healing when their allopathic medical doctors could not help them

            So your evidence is one of the least reliable of all forms of evidence. Ok. Do you take time to communicate that to people? Do you clearly indicate that there is almost nothing as untrustworthy as the evidence you are offering?

            Must just be another mystery of how the universe works that your science has yet to understand.

            Who’s talking about science? My prior post was about how CIA’s approach to medicine is internally inconsistent. As for my other posts, most of the time I’m talking about math, sadly it doesn’t matter how mysterious you prefer to imagine the universe. Math is still the only internally consistent system that can make useful quantifiable predictions.

          • @Bored Now
            “Math is still the only internally consistent system that can make useful quantifiable predictions.” At this time in the history of science.
            – To follow is a Link regarding telepathy or ESP. There is a familiar parallel to how science and homeopathy are viewed by current science.
            Two Quotes:
            [ “Dozens of experimenters have obtained positive results in ESP experiments, and the mathematical procedures have been approved by leading statisticians…. Against all this evidence, almost the only defense remaining to the skeptical scientist is ignorance.” ]

            [“Most people believe in the reality of telepathy based on their own experiences, and are puzzled by the description of telepathy as “extraordinary.” ]


          • At this time in the history of science.

            a) It’s not science — it’s math. and b) you are simply incorrect. Math is, essentially logic with quantities attached. So if you want to posit the existence of “not math” it would have to either not be logical or not deal with quantities. Since the claim I’ve made NECESSITATES both those concepts. There is nothing else which can satisfy the given requirements.


          • “Putting aside that homoepathic remedies have no active ingredient.”

            But are you an expert?
            Besides that, what are the active ingredients in vaccines?

          • But are you an expert?

            …an expert in what homeopathic remedies put on their labels. I don’t think anyone needs to be an expert to comment accurately on that.

          • Again, translating…
            I’m totally clueless about the history and philosophy of homoeopathy, but I’ll criticize it nonetheless.

          • It’s more that everything about homeopathy — history, philosophy, mysticism, etc… — doesn’t actually put more atoms back into the sugar pill and without atoms you don’t have much hope of doing anything useful or significant.

            So your criticism is irrelevant. Thanks. 🙂

          • Again, your ignorance is showing, you know nothing about homoeopathy, you’ve just proven this fact.

          • I’ve read a fair bit about homeopathy. However even if I had not, the enormous amount of fantasy literature written about it doesn’t actually put atoms in sugar pills. Which, if you remember was my point.


          • As stated, you don’t need to be an expert in homeopathy to accurately make the assertion I made.

          • So let’s see, let’s count the ways Mr Dim obfuscates, deliberately confuses, misdirects and in the process, makes himself look utterly foolish…..

            1. You claim to have some knowledge of vaccines, but you totally avoid Vaccines papers specific questions regarding your knowledge.

            2. You also make general comments about medicine and medical issues, but you cannot backup any of your “opinions” with fact.

            And of course 3, you like to intimidate people with your pseudo-intellectual persona, but as we expose you more, you’re nothing but a dilettante.

            But now there is a 4, your inability to understand homoeopathy, but sound like an expert.

          • 1. You claim to have some knowledge of vaccines, but you totally avoid Vaccines papers specific questions regarding your knowledge.

            It’s not obfuscation or misdirection to point out where someone’s argument is baseless or evidence poor. There’s no reason to provide strong evidence against VP’s weak beliefs.

            . You also make general comments about medicine and medical issues, but you cannot backup any of your “opinions” with fact.

            When mentioning a piece of research I usually point out the source. It depends if that has been cited before, If asked about a specific figure or study I’m using I generally provide it. I generally don’t bother supporting things which are accepted by the person I’m talking to or sufficiently well known as to there being no significant dispute on the subject.

            And of course 3,

            Which is just a fantasy of yours.

            your inability to understand homoeopathy

            I think it’s homeopathy’s inability to understand physics that’s the problem. 🙂

          • You nailed this guy exactly as he/she and a rather large teamsof others function on these websites. Especially “:3, you like to intimidate people with your pseudo-intellectual persona, but … nothing but a dilettante.” They are hopelessly brainwashed by their in the box training and angry that everyone does not agree with their data collection and book learning. — very interesting human behavior study.

          • He has some knowledge of statistical modelling and mathematics, but nothing else.

            He uses his knowledge of Statistics to Bamboozle others, and create the perception that he is the master of the Universe when it comes to medical issues.

            But as we say in Australia, he’s just a windbag, characterized by a lot of disingenuous circumlocutory Flim Flam.

          • Apparently like Proponet you just need to read Wiki. for accurate information: “Definition Wikipedia
            noun, plural wikis. 1. (sometimes initial capital letter) a website that allows ANYONE to add, delete, or revise content by using a web browser. 2. Also called wiki engine, wiki application. the software used to create a wiki.
            Wiki | Define Wiki at

            You do not have believe it is a valid form of health care, you do not have to use it. AND it is not about putting atoms in sugar pills. So stop the garbage pretending to know why you think it does not work when others have years of experienced otherwise.

          • Apparently like Proponet

            How exactly does that relate to what I posted?

            You do not have believe it is a valid form of health care,

            It isn’t. It’s not a question of belief it’s that the highest quality evidence points in that directly.

            it is not about putting atoms in sugar pills.

            What I’m pointing out is that Homeopathy isn’t very good at putting atoms in sugar pills, or liquids. Which means that it has no active ingredient.

            So stop the garbage pretending to know why you think it does not work

            It’s not simply what I think. It’s all the best quality evidence points to it not working.

            when others have years of experienced otherwise.

            Your error here is that people can’t “experience something working” in any sense useful to a discussion of the credibility of homeopathy. People can only experience things like a cessation of symptoms. It’s information like this which people correlate with homeopathy as the cause.

            See the difference?

          • I see, you are postulating about homoeopathy again, which you have absolutely no understanding of, but please continue to embarrass yourself.

          • Well I understand what the labels on their boxes mean and those are all one needs to make to correct assertion that homeopathy sucks at putting atoms into pills, or anything else — including humans. Which makes my point, that it has no active ingredient.

            So if you have a problem, it’s with the manufacturers of homeopathic remedies.

          • Says the lightweight who has absolutely no understanding of homeopathy, other than some perceived placebo affect.

          • -Yes, I do see the difference. The Gold standard for Scientific studies “Double Blind” has not shown what individuals experience outside of studies and the hard scientific community considers ALL antidotal evidence useless.
            -One very interesting point was made by the reviewers of multiple studies. Different technicians preparing the study materials provided consistently different results. The procedures were watched closely and determined no difference in process yet the different result persisted.
            -The concepts of homeopathy utilize ENERGY, and since EVERYTHING is energy including the human body and mind. There is clearly much more to be learned that conventional Double Blind studies can not provide. Myself, I will continue to utilize Oscillococcinum to prevent and treat flu symptoms as I have for over 26 years with great success.

            Notation: Oscillococcinum by many homeopaths is not considered “Classic” homeopathy, following law of similars (literally, “likes are cured by likes”), non-the-less is has and does work for many who use it. Be Well

          • has not shown what individuals experience outside of studies

            It’s more that whatever people experience it likely isn’t from homeopathy. That’s what placebo controls tell us.

            Different technicians preparing the study materials provided consistently different results.


            The concepts of homeopathy utilize ENERGY, and since EVERYTHING is energy including the human body and mind.

            *sigh* No, just no. Energy is a property like height, or colour. Therefore by definition everything can not be energy. Mass, for example possesses energy. In the sense that energy can be released from mass.

            By that token homeopathic solutions contain energy — in their MASS. However all science asserts this is the same energy that the same amount of mass has.

            Energy, in the sense used by physicists is the potential to do work. Work is the act of moving a mass across a distance.

            So now that we have actual definitions for these terms. Tell me how homeopathy actually cures anything using energy?

            Oh and concepts are abstractions, ideas. So again, they don’t *utilize* energy. Except perhaps in the sense that people who are in love with particular concepts often spend (utilize) energy saying things about them on the internet.

            I will continue to utilize Oscillococcinum to prevent and treat flu symptoms as I have for over 26 years with great success.

            Except that you have already admitted that none of the people you have ever given or used your exercise in duck-cruelty. Can ever truly say they have experienced it working. Don’t you think it’s deceptive to keep on telling people that you are treating anyone?

            Out of curiosity how do you rationalize that you have no capability to differentiate that vast majority of solutions from water?

          • *sigh* No, just no.” …”Except perhaps in the sense that people who are in love with particular concepts often spend (utilize) energy saying things about them on the internet.” such limitations you impose on the power and use of energy and its’ many levels.

            Your final two paragraphs are 100% false assumptions. I do not assume to give or treat anyone, not my job.

          • such limitations you impose on the power and use of energy and its’ many levels.

            So I take it that you can’t take the definitions used by physicists and use them to tell us how homeopathy uses energy to treat people.

            So if you’re not using the definitions provided by science. You are using the definitions provided by…..what exactly? I’ll wait.

            Your final two paragraphs are 100% false assumptions. I do not assume to give or treat anyone, not my job.

            Except that I didn’t say that you necessarily did. Observe….

            the people you have ever given or used your exercise in duck cruelty

            “people” is being used as a generic noun so it doesn’t necessarily imply more than one person. If you didn’t know how many patents a doctor has. You can still use a plural noun in it’s generic sense. You don’t even have to rephrase if you find out, for example that in this universe doctors mostly have a single patient. Sooooooo… long as you are treating yourself AND you — in your mind — qualify as a person. My statement still stands. Even if I had made an error it’s kind of irrelevant to the larger point. My second bit about
            “treating” states

            Don’t you think it’s deceptive to keep on telling people that you are treating anyone?

            Again unless you don’t consider yourself a person there’s nothing incorrect about my statement.

          • Just one more time here…

            Despite your claims that everything is energy and homeopathy is about utilizing energy. You can’t harmonize that with the way the term “energy” is used in science. Correct?

            So what definition of that term are you using?

          • “You can’t harmonize that with the way the term “energy” is used in science. Correct?”

            Can you?
            At the molecular level?

          • Scientific theories and laws
            “The scientific method and science in general can be frustrating. A theory is almost never proven, though a few theories do become scientific laws. One example would be the laws of conservation of energy, which is the first law of thermodynamics. Dr. Linda Boland, a neurobiologist and chairperson of the biology department at the University of Richmond, Virginia, told Live Science that this is her favorite scientific law. “This is one that guides much of my research on cellular electrical activity and it states that energy cannot be created nor destroyed, only changed in form. This law continually reminds me of the many forms of energy,” she said.
            A law just describes an observed phenomenon, but it doesn’t explain why the phenomenon exists or what causes it. “In science, laws are a starting place,” said Peter Coppinger, an associate professor of biology and biomedical engineering at the Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology. “From there, scientists can then ask the questions, ‘Why and how?'”
            – Hopefully the thoughts of these scientists will help you with being Bored Now.

          • Wikipedia

            Which you didn’t link to because Wikipedia doesn’t say that. What it actually says is:

            In physics, energy is the quantitative property that must be transferred to an object in order to perform work on, or to heat, the object

            Which is what I said. Funny that.

            So I take it that you STILL can’t talk about homeopathy utilizing energy using the definition used by physicists. Right? So again, what definition of energy are you using?

          • Your are bored beyond belief… the actual quote was cited by the same scientist mentioned in the quotes below from another article… the method used is called paraphrase and the writer cited the basis of the information from Wiki… reread the first paragraph and then continue reading through the entire article… noting the many forms of energy and specifically the statement “transferred to other objects or converted into different forms. ” .. It is also interesting to read the history and how the scientific laws of energy have changed as scientists studied more and proved some law to be invalid.

          • “transferred to other objects or converted into different forms. ” but as the Wiki article states – only to do work or heat something.

            So again, all you have to do is explain how homeopathy “utilizes energy” using the definition of the term used in science but of course you can’t. Right?

            Feel free to continue to dance around this point. 🙂

          • you might also enjoy this definition from Wikipedia.
            Sound energy is a form of energy associated with the vibration of matter. The SI unit of sound energy is the joule (J). Sound is a mechanical wave and as such consists physically in oscillatory elastic compression and in oscillatory displacement of a fluid. Therefore, the medium acts as storage for both potential and kinetic energy as well.[1]

            Kept is simple for you… only quoted the first paragraph.

          • Too bad that doesn’t make your point that homeopathy somehow “utilizes energy” but feel free to keep quoting random things which don’t form an argument to make your point relevant.

          • “By that token homeopathic solutions contain energy — in their MASS. However all science asserts this is the same energy that the same amount of mass has.”

            So you don’t believe in the Higgs-Boson either?
            And the time and the infrastructure to find it in the first place?

          • If you want any advice, persist with exposing this intellectual fraud.
            Don’t let his nonsense and pseudo intellectual claptrap intimidate you… he’s got nothing.

          • Homeopathy is energy medicine. It’s natural, safe and doesn’t harm like pharma poisons. So safe that even pregnant females (human and animals) and newborns, infants and children can use it. It’s effective and very affordable. In the polio epidemic in Europe, 2 MDs who used homeopathy exclusively, had 100% prevention and cure rates. Nothing in pharma can even come close.
            Pharma shills are here becuz big pharma is very threatened by homeopathy and other natural medicines. They are the preferred choice for more and more as ppl learn the facts/truth.

          • Homeopathy is energy medicine

            What does that mean? Energy is the potential to do work or create heat. Work is the ability to move a mass across a distance by applying a force. Using those standard definitions, what does homeopathy do?

            It’s natural, safe and doesn’t harm like pharma poisons. So safe that even pregnant females (human and animals) and newborns, infants and children can use it

            So far I’m with you. Homeopathy when properly prepared is simply whatever your dilutant is. If that’s water, for example then sure that’s as safe as your water supply is.

            In the polio epidemic in Europe, 2 MDs who used homeopathy exclusively, had 100% prevention and cure rates.

            How do we know this claim is true?

            Pharma shills are here becuz big pharma is very threatened by homeopathy and other natural medicines.

            Really? Well a) Why would they be here? How many people come to a conversation miles deep in a thread about vaccination to read about homeopathy and b) Why isn’t there more conventional backlash? Where are the attack ads? For example? Politicians/Coke/Pepsi had no qualms about these methods. Why would pharmaceutical companies abstain?

            They are the preferred choice for more and more as ppl learn the facts/truth.

            That seems to be the preferred claim of some folks but homeopathy, if it is true. It has to be the most weakly supported truth I’ve ever seen.

          • Yin Chiao,, so wonderful for colds and throat related issues, I believe it is Japanese origin… excellent formula. It is included in the Herbal Resistance Liquid formula.

          • Thank for the additional resources, I had an old copy MATERIA MEDICA for homeopathy on-hand for a while it helped me to understand what and why of many formulas. Unfortunately Homeopathy is complex and most remedies need the understanding of the individual to be most effective. Also most people never learn that peppermint interferes with many remedies and they use tooth paste. I have been glad the Oscillo works for so many without need of individualization from a trained physician.

          • You “totally agree?” Based on WHAT EVIDENCE, you twit? Cite a study, you fucking ignorant ass. You demand evidence from everyone else, but you imagine you’re exempt?

          • Oscillococcinum® ?

            Let’s take a look..

            “Active ingredient: Anas Barbariae Hepatis et Cordis Extractum (extract of Muscovy duck liver and heart) 200CK HPUS 1×10−400 g which is much less than the weight of a proton (1.67×10−24 g).”

            Oook.. . what else?

            “The preparation is derived from duck liver and heart, diluted to 200C—a ratio of one part duck offal to 10400 parts water. Homeopaths claim that the molecules leave an “imprint” in the dilution that causes a healing effect on the body, although there is no evidence that supports this mechanism or efficacy beyond placebo. Oscillococcinum was originally proposed by the French physician Joseph Roy, based on his misidentification of an oscillating bacterium he named oscillococcus in victims of the Spanish flu epidemic of 1917-1918. Roy said he had seen the same bacterium in cancer sufferers, and proposed a homeopathic preparation (which he claimed to have isolated in a duck) as a remedy for the Spanish flu. The microbes Roy said he saw have never been independently observed by any other researcher. In addition, it is now known that influenza is caused by a virus and not a bacterium.”

            (Source: Wikipedia | “Oscillococcinum”)

            …. …

            I am assuming that you did your ‘research’ before purchasing and using this product, DebateBothSides. (Am I correct in my assumption here?)

            Question, if I may.. were there no flags raised in your mind before you threw your money into the coffers of Boiron?

          • Guess it is just a mystery why it works. The universe is filled with mystery yet to be understood by science.

          • In general, when it comes to health issues, particularly any involving alternative medicine, Wikipedia is not to be trusted in my opinion, although there may nothing wrong with this particular entry.

          • Wikipedia….part of the NWO cabal (includes pharma) to control the narrative, how ppl think and perceive reality. Part of their MSM empire. Your days of deception, lies, fraud and destruction are over. The truth is out and spreading. Pharma and it’s evil leaders will soon be outed. For those who don’t know, research how conv. medicine and the AMA started – the business of disease by Rockefeller. Another way for them to make big $$$$ and destroy humanity. The cabal are satanists you see. Their pharma products are all poisons and designed to harm and kill God’s creatures.

          • Is there a “fine line” between posting you opinion on vaccines and posting lies? If there is, you moron cross it every day.

          • She also sends threats and insults by messages on FB as well. she will do herself in…or we’ll read about her in the news.

      • There’s this chick on here making 120 bucks an hour from home and her language skills are clearly not as good as yours!!

        Hit me up and I’ll give you her website info!!! 😉

    • This article is very misleading. I would say deliberately.

      “We think the Trump administration should set an example in enforcing the multiple conscience laws that have been passed since the 1970s to prevent the government from punishing people who have objections to participating in abortions,” said David Christensen, vice president of government affairs at the Family Research Council.

      This office will serve health care workers only. The author’s speculation this is a loophole for those opposed to mandatory childhood vaccinations is wrong. #FakeNews

      • The Boleyn Report, a serious, legitimate anti-vaccine blog has said exactly the same things being reported in this article. I know this is supposed to be a click bait site but from the articles I have read from this site the information has always been available in other reliable places. Belen didn’t say anything about this applying only to health workers, but encouraged everyone to file a complaint,

        • “The Bolen Report, a serious, legitimate anti-vaccine blog,”

          LOLOLOL. The same blog that predicted the overturn of well … nevermind. People who think Bolen Report is a “reliable place.” Gotta love ’em.

      • Read the Executive Order. I did and it says nothing about it only being for health care workers. This is for ALL US citizens. We already have the right to refuse based on our Constitution and Bill of Rights. Now we have a division in our Fed. govmt. to help us if needed. No govmt has the right to force anything into the body of anyone. Show me where it’s allowed according to US law, which is the 2 documents I list above. Federal law trumps state law.

        • Federal law trumps state law, but federal law has already established the states have the right to establish their own vaccination requirements. That’s the federal law.

          When someone comes to your door attempting to force anything into your body, call the police.K?

        • naturelnooz is an exceptionally harmful source of conspiracy theories and fear. He creates fear and does well as an Internet supplement salesman.

          Yet this one might be about right. There are injuries from vaccines. Rare, but real. If you save 10,000 lives with a vaccine but ten people are injured, it is only fair to compensate those people. That’s what this is.

          • @disqus_Fgf7TzdGsl:disqus
            If you THINK that the Deep State wants / cares about you.. think again.
            They have been in charge for more than 140+ years and Trump is finally taking them down.
            When the chemtrails are no longer in the sky…. he won!

            GENOCIDE In the Unites States – Chemtrails, Monsanto, Vaccines and Fluoride, Where’s The Outrage?

          • Then you vaccinate your children don’t tell me what to do. I am not the one who is receiving all the pharm bonus for harming children.

          • And your evidence that anyone else is receiving all the pharma bonus for harming children was what again? Because neither of your statements appear to align with … you know…facts. Reality. Those sorts of things.


          • Blaylock is a neurosurgeon. Many try to belittle this man. The evidence he brings was not argued by the courts. So they closed the doors. Your only seeing the tip of the iceburg.

          • Blaylock believes in chemtrails – that the government is introducing particles into the air.

            Do you believe in this?

          • Conspiracy Theory Now Conspiracy Fact, as Congress Holds Hearings on Weather Manipulation
            Weather modification just jumped from “chemtrail” conspiracy theory into mainstream reality, as Congress holds hearings on geoengineering.

            Washington, D.C. – Geoengineering is finally going mainstream as the U.S. House Subcommittee on Environment and Subcommittee on Energy Hearing, on Wednesday, held the first House hearing about the science that until now has generally been considered a “conspiracy theory” and relegated to the fringe’s of society by the Praetorian Guard mainstream media — controlled by the ruling power-elite oligarchy.

            The controversial subject of climate engineering or weather modification – which was popularized, and oversimplified with the term “chem-trails” – is stepping from the shadows and into the light of public scrutiny for the first time.

            The congressional hearing, titled “Geoengineering: Innovation, Research, and Technology,” was attended by members of the House committees as well as representatives of think tanks, academics, and researcher scientists to discuss the future of geoengineering research.

            Participants in Wednesday’s hearing include Full Committee Chairman Lamar Smith (R-Texas), Environment Subcommittee Chairman Andy Biggs (R-Ariz.), and Energy Subcommittee Chairman Randy Weber (R-Texas). Testimony was presented by Dr. Phil Rasch, chief scientist for climate science, Laboratory Fellow, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory; Dr. Joseph Majkut, director of climate policy at the Niskanen Center; Dr. Douglas MacMartin, senior research associate, Cornell University; and Ms. Kelly Wanser, principal director, Marine Cloud Brightening Project, Joint Institute for the Study of the Atmosphere and Ocean, University of Washington.

            Interestingly, “Chemtrails” have long been the talk of conspiracy theories with massive amounts of disinformation being posted all over the internet including fake studies and photos. However, several real studies show that some ‘seeding’ or geoengineering may have already taken place – indicating that secret projects to test the science have likely already taken place.

            A study published in the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health suggests that geoengineering has already begun and that at least one substance being used is a toxic by-product of coal burning called coal-fly ash.

            “The widespread, intentional and increasingly frequent chemical emplacement in the troposphere has gone unidentified and unremarked in the scientific literature for years. The author presents evidence that toxic coal combustion fly ash is the most likely aerosolized particulate sprayed by tanker-jets for geoengineering, weather-modification and climate-modification purposes and describes some of the multifold consequences on public health.”
            The hearings largely operated as a coming out party for the field, and as an opportunity for the industry to attempt to solicit funding from the Trump administration to advance basic research.

            A 2013 report by the Congressional Research Service, titled Geoengineering: Governance and Technology Policy provided a brief overview of the “geoengineering” technology:

            The term ‘geoengineering’ describes this array of technologies that aim, through large-scale and deliberate modifications of the Earth’s energy balance, to reduce temperatures and counteract anthropogenic climate change. Most of these technologies are at the conceptual and research stages, and their effectiveness at reducing global temperatures has yet to be proven. Moreover, very few studies have been published that document the cost, environmental effects, socio-political impacts, and legal implications of geoengineering. If geoengineering technologies were to be deployed, they are expected to have the potential to cause significant transboundary effects.

            In general, geoengineering technologies are categorized as either a carbon dioxide removal (CDR) method or a solar radiation management (SRM) (or albedo-modification) method. CDR methods address the warming effects of greenhouse gases by removing carbon dioxide (CO2) from the atmosphere. CDR methods include ocean fertilization, and carbon capture and sequestration. SRM methods address climate change by increasing the reflectivity of the Earth’s atmosphere or surface. Aerosol injection and space-based reflectors are examples of SRM methods. SRM methods do not remove greenhouse gases from the atmosphere, but can be deployed faster with relatively immediate global cooling results compared to CDR methods.
            During Wednesday’s hearing, the potential need to set up a regulatory structure within which experiments would be allowed, at a set scale, was discussed.

            READ MORE: Polarize & Conquer – How the Paris Attacks Benefit ISIS and the Western Military Industrial Complex
            California congressman Jerry McNerney said he plans to soon introduce legislation to direct the Energy Department and other federal agencies to support two National Academy of Sciences reports on geoengineering. One would develop a research agenda for solar reflection methods; the other would provide guidance for governance of resulting experiments.

            According to a report by investigative journalist Derrick Broze, writing for Activist Post:

            “The push for discussion of geoengineering from the Trump administration should come as no surprise. Back in January 2017, Activist Post reported that ‘the U.S. Global Change Research Program quietly recommended new studies looking into two specific areas of research involving geoengineering.’ With the release of their report, the GCRP became the first scientists in the federal government to formally recommend studies involving geoengineering.”
            Previously, we reported on Director of the Central Intelligence Agency, John O. Brennan, addressing the topic of geoengineering while discussing instability and transnational threats to global security at a meeting with the Council on Foreign Relations in late June 2016.

            During his long-winded talk of threats to US interests and how the largely CIA-created ISIL threat is impacting the world, Brennan brought up the topic of geoengineering.

            Another example is the array of technologies—often referred to collectively as geoengineering—that potentially could help reverse the warming effects of global climate change. One that has gained my personal attention is stratospheric aerosol injection, or SAI, a method of seeding the stratosphere with particles that can help reflect the sun’s heat, in much the same way that volcanic eruptions do.
            Brennan went on to echo the calls from some scientists who have called for aerial spraying.

            An SAI program could limit global temperature increases, reducing some risks associated with higher temperatures and providing the world economy additional time to transition from fossil fuels. The process is also relatively inexpensive—the National Research Council estimates that a fully deployed SAI program would cost about $10 billion yearly.
            Every expert to testify at Wednesday’s hearing noted that geoengineering techniques shouldn’t be substituted for efforts to reduce greenhouse gases and prepare for climate change impacts. Additionally, a letter, signed by 24 scientists and environmental advocates, stated that “any consideration of a Federally funded and coordinated research program into geoengineering must be in the context of a strategic portfolio of responses to climate change.”

            One idea gaining traction is to seed marine clouds with salt water or other particles, increasing their potential to reflect solar rays, cooling the earth. Its part of nascent and controversial branch of science known as “sunlight reflection methods,” or SRM.

            “We think SRN could buy time for other (carbon-reduction) measures to be put in place,” said Philip J. Rasch, chief climate scientist for the Pacific Northwest National Laboratory in Richland, Washington.
            “If the worst case scenarios of global warming come to pass, these technologies could be used to help people, saving lives and economies from the worst effects of climate change,” added Joseph Majkut, director of climate policy at the Niskanen Center, a Washington D.C. think tank.

            Rasch and Majkut are two climate specialists who testified Wednesday before the House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, which held a subcommittee hearing on the potential for “geoengineering” — a catchall for proposals to directly cool the atmosphere or pull carbon emissions from it.

            Geoengineering, which includes SRM, has been discussed by scientists since the 1960s, but with mixed enthusiasm, said Rasch. Some experts fear that seeding clouds could have unintended effects, such as impacts on rainfall.
            Scientists at the University of Washington formed the Marine Cloud Brightening Project, in an effort to bolster financial support for basic research, in hopes of running small-scale tests of adding particles to clouds.

            In addition to seeding marine clouds, the team is also looking into what’s known as “stratospheric aerosol geoengineering,” which involves injecting reflective particles into the upper atmosphere, similar to a volcano during major eruptions, to produce a regional cooling effect.

            During Wednesday’s House hearing Committee Chairman Smith noted that geoengineering “could have positive effects on the Earth’s atmosphere,” but cautioned “we have a lot to learn.”

            Although Smith intimated that geoengineering could be preferable to increased regulation, stating, “While we are not sure this is plausible, some scientists believe it could achieve substantial environmental benefits at a cheaper cost than regulations,” he acknowledged the potential for “unintended consequences of geoengineering.”

            By Jay Syrmopoulos – November 9, 2017


          • OK, I read the document. So you’re saying the 1/4000 SIDS rate is due to the vaccine? The report goes on to say that the rate of SIDS in the population at large is about the same.

        • Here is a real, written link to the payout data. It has been about $3.8 billion in total since the program started in 1988, so the above “scare number” does sound about right.

          Several billion doses of vaccine have been given in that period with 5,825 payments made, so the rate works to a literal one in one million.

          It’s pretty funny for someone like me – a real science person – to be defending data from such an awful source as naturelnooz. But his numbers are often based in truth. It is all the conspiracy stuff he runs with that is sad to see people having faith in. Like chemtrails and odd JFK assassination stuff.

          Plus, again, his main role in life is Internet Supplement Salesman. You sell ever more supplements as you manage to spread fear, so his method of operation makes pretty good sense. Mercloa is another multimillionaire supplement salesman.

  1. Parents have been Forced to play Russian Roulette with your child’s life in these dangerous vaccines. Thank God Trump is giving us the right to make our own decisions and the Law Must respect it, no more mandates to take a chance on your child’s life.

      • I had measles and mumps it was easier than taking 53 vaccines and wonder if I will live and or have all my faculties. All that mercury and aluminum, formaldehyde plus a dozen other chemical , don’t tell me more that 80% of all children not being effected. You either hate children or you are just plain evil. And you can stick you health co. you know where cause they get bonus of 80 thousand a year to shot babies up with this crap!

        • Mercury, Thimerisol was removed in 2001. (source: FDA)

          Aluminum, insignificant amount and nowhere near the LD50 toxicity required to do the least bit of harm. (source: CDC)

          Formaldehyde, the tiny amount in a vaccine would be metabolized by the liver in under a second without issue, just as foods we eat every day break down into methanol, then formaldehyde, and then into formate, and beyond.

          People like you hear scary things about chemicals without ever bothering to understand the chemistry behind them, and biochemistry involved to determine whether a given concentration of that chemical is toxic or not.

          After all, simple water can be poisonous if you drink enough at one time. And oxygen is poisonous to humans except in certain circumstances.

          Oh yeah, and 7 billion people, a sizeable percentage having been vaccinated, can’t be wrong.

          • Not odd at all. The FDA requires mercury to be listed in any amount, even at therapeutic levels. You’ll also see that there are SPECIFIC dosing instructions to ensure that the mercury exposure is kept to an acceptable amount WHEN USED AS DIRECTED.

            There are plenty of “scary chemicals” that are safe when used as directed. Nightshade, arsenic, alcohol, selenium, and worst of all……… WATER.

            Drink enough water and you die.
            Take too much mercury and you die.
            Take too much selenium and you die.
            Drink too much alcohol and you die.

            Get the idea? Toxicity is not guaranteed, it is a relative thing.

          • Interesting to hear your theory that 50,000 ppb of mercury injected into a tiny infant along with Polysorbate – 80 to carry it directly over the blood brain barrier is “safe”, when an adult is cautioned NOT to eat tuna fish containing 2 ppb of mercury for fear of brain damage, even though the mercury is passing through the digestive system instead of lodging in the brain.

            It’s odd that you say you are a big fan of “Science”, then ignore all of the peer reviewed Scientific Studies in Pub Med, The Oxford Journal and many Medical Research facilities saying exactly the opposite of what your are saying!

            So very odd. Maybe your should stop reading out of your Pharma Shill Handbook and actually start looking at actual science. Of course that would probably NOT be something you would do, as you are not about to give up a few extra dollars made on undermining the health and welfare of America’s Children.


            Journal of Toxicology
            Volume 2012 (2012), Article ID 373678, 12 pages
            Research Article
            Thimerosal-Derived Ethylmercury Is a Mitochondrial Toxin in Human Astrocytes: Possible Role of Fenton Chemistry in the Oxidation and Breakage of mtDNA
            Martyn A. Sharpe, Andrew D. Livingston, and David S. Baskin
            Department of Neurosurgery, The Methodist Hospital, 6565 Fannin Street, Houston, TX 77030, USA

            Received 26 March 2012; Revised 7 May 2012; Accepted 21 May 2012

            Academic Editor: Y. James Kang

            Thimerosal generates ethylmercury in aqueous solution and is widely used as preservative. We have investigated the toxicology of Thimerosal in normal human astrocytes, paying particular attention to mitochondrial function and the generation of specific oxidants. We find that ethylmercury not only inhibits mitochondrial respiration leading to a drop in the steady state membrane potential, but also concurrent with these phenomena increases the formation of superoxide, hydrogen peroxide, and Fenton/Haber-Weiss generated hydroxyl radical. These oxidants increase the levels of cellular aldehyde/ketones. Additionally, we find a five-fold increase in the levels of oxidant damaged mitochondrial DNA bases and increases in the levels of mtDNA nicks and blunt-ended breaks. Highly damaged mitochondria are characterized by having very low membrane potentials, increased superoxide/hydrogen peroxide production, and extensively damaged mtDNA and proteins. These mitochondria appear to have undergone a permeability transition, an observation supported by the five-fold increase in Caspase-3 activity observed after Thimerosal treatment.

          • Big difference as to how the body responds to an ingested vs an injected substance. If the response was the same why not give all vaccines orally?

          • I think you are confusing your antivax misinformation here. The claims is poly80 bonds with aluminum to cross the BBB. But, the reality is the only drugs which use poly80 to bond and cross BBB are brain meds like loperamide, which have compounds in nanoparticles. Poly80 can only help nanoparticles cross the BBB and nothing in vaccines is that small. Aluminum salts are in microparticles, must too large to cross BBB. In reality, it’s really hard to cross the BBB which is why brain surgery is sometimes a thing for brain issues.

            and no pediatric vaccines have thimerosal

          • Yes I just posted that link to you because you clearly are not aware of how few flu vaccines have thimerosal in them.

            What are mental health services like in New Zealand. Could you get some help for your severe paranoia?

          • To whom are you writing? Are you a pharmaceutical company representative? I certainly am not. This is how I feel about sales ” I don’t want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don’t want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed.”

          • Pediatric vaccines still contain trace amounts of thimerosal and even trace an mounts, when combined with the aluminum adjuvants in vaccines, are extremely toxic.

          • Not according to the FDA. Many have NONE, as in not even traces. And nothing in vaccines is toxic. You what is a real toxin? Pertussis. Also, diphtheria. And tetanus.

          • Mercury Free Vaccines Still Have Mercury In Them

            Excipients are substances used in the production of vaccines which are not actual added ingredients in the vaccine.

            These excipients, including mercury, remain in trace amounts in the vaccine. The Minnesota Department of Health, USA, say:

            is still used in the early stages of the manufacturing process of a few
            vaccines to ensure the production line is sterile. It is removed
            through a purification process, with only trace remaining (about 1/100th
            of the amount found in older vaccines).’

          • ”we mean none.” Thanks for confirming that all you shills are working for the same pharmaceutical companies. And your / they are wrong there are trace amounts left in vaccines and when combined with the aluminum in vaccines it becomes 100 times more toxic.

          • ppb?
            You are confusing dose with concentrations.

            Elizabeth, if I injected you with a solution of 50,000ppb of mercury, would it cause toxicity?*

            *The solution I am thinking of would consist of 1 single molecule of mercury, contained in a solution of a 20,000 molecules of water.
            Would you be poisoned by it?

          • If you drink one ounce of rattlesnake venom will you be poisoned by it? Now inject that same amount and let us know the results.

          • Adults can ingest tuna within limits. A pregnant female can eat 2 x170gm servings a week with safety. Mercury in tuna is 95% absorbed.
            So during pregnancy, it’s ok for women to expose their infants to levels of mercury that are 80 times higher than the levels found in a thimerosal containing vaccine.

            …Yet you think the vaccine is dangerous with just 25mcg.
            (And no one suggests giving thimerosal vaccines to pregnant women anyway!)

          • when an adult is cautioned NOT to eat tuna fish containing 2 ppb of
            mercury for fear of brain damage, even though the mercury is passing
            through the digestive system instead of lodging in the brain.

            Since when? Post a citation. And you AVs have no idea how the digestive system works, let alone the immune system.

          • Guessing your are what is called a “mommy blogger”. Get paid to watch articles and spread pharmaceutical propaganda… No point talking to you… but it makes a great educational conversation as others are posting the proof that you make up and try to make sound believable I went to the CDC web site, located the vaccination protocol list for babies in their first year… Adding up the lowest minimum ppb included in doses.. it was over 2 ppb and the allowable .. I did not add but much more… this goes into a tiny babies system before their own immune system has a change to finish development… If your picture is true you were born way before the current vaccination protocol as I was… children after 1991 have received way too much… NEEDS to stop… we need clean immunization methods not dirty vaccinations.

          • Thank you for clear information. Don’t you love it when you have a different point of view and people pull rank or resort to maligning you with stereotyping or name calling? ha ha. One in sixchildren in US have developmental disabilities, 54 percent of children now have chronic health problems–many related to neurological and auto immune disorders. With these statistics, it makes sense to investigate the one thing that is effecting the immune system (vaccines). And by research, I mean a single double-blind, inert placebo-based study of each vaccine, and their cumulative effect also. This has not been done, yet we are told vaccines are safe! With 1 child in 36 now getting autism, hopefully the alarm bells are sounding off and people will reconsider the fuzzy-quasi-faith-based mumbo-jumbo that is being passed off as “science”. Tripling the amount of vaccines since the late 1980s due to Congress giving the manufacturers full liability, there is no end in sight.

          • But, but, if you compare an inert placebo (rather than the placebo with the toxic carriers) to the full vaccine, the vaccine might show more toxic side effects than the inert placebo. That would not be the result the study sponsors and designers want.

          • Natural immunity is all that is needed. It develops via childbirth, breastfeeding and exposure to the environment. Clean vaccines is a contradiction in terms. Even the US Supreme Court has declared vaccines “unavoidably unsafe” because they are such filth. Vaccines don’t need to be made safer – they need to be shunned and eventually abolished – as far as I am concerned the sooner the better. Over 200 years of this medical fraud, child abuse and crime against humankind is in my estimation quite enough.

            Erwin Alber
            Vaccination Information Network


          • Keep posting Erwin Alber!

            Your completely nonsensical, conspiratorial rants expose the anti-vaxxers as completely untethered from reality. California passed their vaccination laws, in part, because people realized that they don’t want public policy influenced by the crazies.

            Do more of what you’re doing, and vaccination rates will certainly go up!

          • I am sorry but it is postings like yours that is making even intelligent pro-vaccination people call everyone who is questioning the problems with current vaccination protocols anti-vaxxers and causing a stalemate.
            – I am very happy that the small pox vaccine was developed and used and that there is now no known Small Pox virus in humans.

          • Do you understand that ppb is a concentration, rather than a dose?
            The volume the dose is diluted in determines what the ppb concentration is.
            For instance, we have heard from ill-educated antivaxers that 50,000ppb is the toxic “dose” in vaccines…
            But if that solution consisted of a single molecule of mercury in 20,000 molecules of water (50,000ppb), would you regard that single molecule as being toxic?

          • -Mike, I do understand that PPB = parts per billion, I understand that I looked at the CDC website and added the ppb listed for each dose a child is required to receive over a very short period of time. It added up to over what the CDC noted as safe for one dose. There is that cumulative or collective result. I am not the best with numerical data but I can add. What else I KNOW is too many children are having drastic reactions and have become permanently damaged, families are hurt and having to support damaged grown children. It is not an acceptable % of failure.
            – I KNOW that the system is broke and needs to be fixed.
            – We need herd wellness! Building strong immune systems and normal immunization instead of over vaccination which is interfering with the natural development process.
            – Nature or God if you will, has given us tools from the plants of the earth to heal. Our current vaccination program is no longer doing as intended. Vaccinations are not providing lasting immunity as the natural process does. Immunity in the human body is best developed SLOWLY with small exposure to many bacteria, virus etc. overtime. Let our babies develop first.
            -Also, It sounds like a great idea to put many vaccinations in one shot to reduce the number of needles but this has NEVER been TESTED by any science we are seeing the long term results now. The Pharm’s skew the data to favor paying for their research and development and profits over human health. There are many other options. Use Titer blood testing for school requirements and for our pets also. Some families may chose may homeopathy with over 100 years of documented value, especially in the UK, no it has not been tested with “double blind” studies that science would require sacrificial lambs.
            – Mandates without options are against what is country was build upon..

            -I was blessed my children were born just as this serious over vaccination system grew.. My first had no obvious damage from MMR but my second did, fortunately mild but she lives with her learning challenges. Knowing what I know now, I would have rather managed a home illness as my mother did with our generation. Worked very well, being youngest I was gently exposed and had gentle short days of illness and lots of real “Chicken Soup” Good night to this article seek hope for intelligent choices for our future.

          • Another error:
            Don’t compare the dose of substance in a vaccine (given intermittently over maybe 4 or 5 time points in the first year of life) with the allowable daily dose.


          • Your memory is not too sharp sir , you just stated 2 days ago that the FDA removed mercury from it in 2001. Wow !! Can you please send me some of that good weed yer smoking ? LoL !

          • It has been removed from all vaccines in the US, with the exception of around 20% of flu vaccines which are available mainly for adult use in multidose vials.
            In the UK there are no vaccines with thimerosal in them.

          • Thimerosal was removed from all vaccines used in children under 6 in 2001. The new vaccines that have come along since have all been thimersal-free, even if they’re used for older kids (HPV, Tdap, Menactra). Multi-dose flu vaccines have a small amount of thimerosal in them. They are not usually used in kids.

            Ed for typo.

          • Clearly you don’t know much about the science of toxicity. FREE mercury bad. Bound mercury in a molecule the body can’t break down, harmless but effective in other ways. Thimerisol is unable to be metabolized by the body, but it’s an effective preservative, so it’s considered safe enough to use in trace amounts.

            After all, water or oxygen can be just as poisonous to humans, it’s the quantity we consume and the form we consume it in that makes all the difference. (That’s called SCIENCE if you’re unfamiliar.)

          • It kept the vaccine preserved so it could last long enough to do it’s job, thus making it a vital part of a therapeutic agent.

          • Oh FFS! Only if you’re a microbe or oxygen molecule trying to spoil the vaccine. Contrary to conspiracy theories, the FDA isn’t in the habit of poisoning its own people and their own families. So why in God’s name would they use Thimerisol if they had ANY indication it was harmful? What’s your tin-foil theory for that?!

          • You must have an extremely low I.Q. Its a preservative. What does a preservative do? It PREVENTS the growth of anything in the vaccine. How does it accomplish it? By being TOXIC

          • You’re one to talk about IQs buddy! What’s toxic to a microbe isn’t necessarily toxic to you and I.

            Chocolate is toxic to dogs, yummy to humans.
            Avocados are toxic to most animals other than humans.
            Walnuts and macadamia nuts harmful to dogs.
            Grapes… onions… raisins… garlic… caffeine… citrus peels and leaves… and yeast dough.

            All of these are fine for human consumption and deadly to household pets. There’s plenty of animals that also eat things deadly to humans. Biology is NOT the same among all living things. Stop behaving as though it is.

          • A characteristic of the Homo Erectus bi-ped is that this specie of life form is easy to control. We are gullible and are painfully finding our how serious and blighted we have allowed our bodies and brains to become. Our whole social structure worldwide is possibly coming out of as self imposed coma of ignorance. Question. Study. Investigate beyond passivity. Take the slow road of thorough awareness.

          • Comprehensive?

            Your link is just to an abstract.. where’s the link to the actual “comprehensive” paper?

            … …

            Do you ever read (understanding is another matter) your copypasta and/or check your links, Elizabeth A Haywood?

            Allow me.. ‘no.. no, I don’t.’


            If it’s authored by the Geiers.. you just know that it is going to be god-awful..

            * Chicago Tribune | “Autism doctor loses license in Illinois, Missouri”
            * Science | “Four vaccine myths and where they came from”

          • Why is that odd? Shouldn’t they be telling the truth? And the truth is, 80% of the US flu vaccine supply is thimerosal-free, per CDC.

          • This is a little off topic but I can’t resist. The Country Village Nursing Home in Lancaster NH has been shut down because almost everyone there ( residents and staff ) has the flu.They all got the flu shot and yet they all got the flu.

          • It was a different virus, you idiot. Are you a doctor? If you are, you should have your license taken away.

          • Ron Roy: “Have you got any more links I can use?”

            Sure, do, Ronald P. Roy, and from your favourite authoritative source on every -thing! Whale to!

            “Eleven years ago I discovered that inexpensive zappers routinely cure cancer and AIDS. What’s taking so long for this news to spread? The answer, of course, is subversion, ritual magic, DOR-based radionics and other high-tech magic and, not least, the studious avoidance in the What To Think Network of any mention of this phenomenally liberating, accessible technology.”–Don Croft (July 2007)

            … …

            Ron! Ron! Were you aware of the above!

            “DOR-based radionics” is keeping a cure for both; cancer and AIDS hidden from the public!

            Get the message out! Copy and paste away to your Facebook group! We simply cannot tolerate the greed and madness of the Medical Mafia Cartel anymore!

          • There are many kinds of flu; they are all caused by a virus. Just because you got a flu shot doesn’t mean you’re immune to all viruses! The CDC chooses the most virulent and most common flu virus of that year to immunize against. I’m sorry I called you and idiot. I’m an idiot for calling you an idiot..

          • I take it back, troll. You are a paranoid raging idiot who doesn’t have the capability to use your cerebrum, the area that is responsible for cognitive thinking.

          • Drinking a flu shot is not nearly as dangerous as injecting it.

            If you do not understand this basic difference you have really no clue about how the body deals with toxins. The body is equipped, to some extent, dealing with toxins that are ingested. This is something that can happen in a normal situation.

            However, there is nothing natural and normal about injecting mercury , aluminium, virusses, animal DNA, etc. directly into the blood stream. That is why so many people get so sick from vaccines.

          • “Drinking a flu shot is not nearly as dangerous as injecting it.”

            We’re not talking about drinking a flu shot versus injecting a flu shot. We’re talking about half-a-gallon-of-flu-shots a day plus washing clothes in flu shots vs injecting one flu shot.

            “If you do not understand this basic difference you have really no clue about how the body deals with toxins.”

            Toxins are produced by living things. The flu shot does not qualify.

            ” The body is equipped, to some extent, dealing with toxins that are ingested. This is something that can happen in a normal situation.”

            We tend to inhale toxins, if anything. But toxicants or toxic ingredients, sure.

            “However, there is nothing natural and normal about injecting mercury , aluminium, virusses, animal DNA, etc. directly into the blood stream.”

            Show me one vaccine injected directly into the blood stream. Compounds are not elements.


            As for there being nothing natural about injections, what on earth do you think a rose thorn or an animal bite does?

            ” That is why so many people get so sick from vaccines.”

            Bare assertion.

          • Who injects these things “directly into the bloodstream”?
            Please be more careful with your language.
            If you lie about one thing, people will assume you will lie about other things.

          • Even if vaccines are not injected directly into the bloodstream they have to get into the bloodstream in order to get an antibody response. And there’s a big difference as to how the body reacts to an ingested vs, and injectedted substance. Ingested snake venom is completely neutralized by the digestive system whereas if injected you will suffer the full effects of that poison.

          • No Ron.
            There is the lymphatic system, and primary immune responses to injected substances takes place in regional lymph nodes, prior to systemic circulation entry.

            And quit the snake venom stuff would you? No one is discussing ingested substances. If you wish to, be my guest though.
            …We could start with organomercurials like ethyl mercury. It is 95% absorbed into the circulation following ingestion. Of course, you no doubt think different, having been raised on a diet of pure antivaccine propaganda since you weaned.

          • If you paid attention I’ve posted that info a dozen times. If you weren’t sleeping on the job you would have noticed it. Oh do you have any more information I can put to good use. The last link you posted was a big help.

          • Vaccine bypass an important part of our immune system putting an undo strain on our last line of defense. The first and most important part:

            Immunoglobulin A (IgA, also referred to as sIgA) is an antibody that plays a crucial role in the immune function of mucous membranes. The amount of IgA produced in association with mucosal membranes is greater than all other types of antibody combined.[3] In absolute terms, between three and five grams are secreted into the intestinal lumen each day.[4] This represents up to 15% of total immunoglobulins produced throughout the body.[5]

          • putting an undo strain on our last line of defense.

            Ron, when you get a VPD like chicken pox — which you swear up and down is almost entirely harmless — the symptoms you get are the….get ready for it…of a load on your immune system. Orders of magnitude greater than what is produce by a vaccine. This is why the visible symptoms of VPD’s appear.

            So your claim is that in some magical fairy way. Getting a disease like chickenpox ISN’T a enormous strain on your immune system but a thousandth of the viral load IS.

            (thanks for the entertainment)

          • You conveniently left out all the diseases cause by all the other ingredients in vaccines. You know like every auto-immune disease known to mankind and all the cancers not to mention the brain damage.

          • You conveniently left out all the diseases

            I also left out TS-19, Descolada and Shazambago for the same reason I left out the diseases you believe are called by vaccines.

            all the other ingredients in vaccines

            Which ingredients are in the VZV vaccine which aren’t already in most peoples bodies in much larger quantities?

            (keep up the entertainment Ron)

          • It might be important to separate third-hand reports of clinically unconfirmed post-hoc events from actual useful data.

            The chickenpox is a mild disease.

            …and getting vaccinated is analogous to having the mildest possible case of it. So the vaccine is likely to be far safer.


            So how exactly are children getting shingles from the VZV vaccine? Why would you even include that on a list of symptoms since your mild disease is the cause of pretty much every case of shingles?

            The King study IIRC which is where a lot of the talk about prophylaxis through exposure to children. Actually found that shingles cases among children dropped to zero after vaccination.

          • As “Bored Now” stated, these “complications” of chickenpox vaccine you mention are just a list of the possible effects of live chickenpox virus in humans.

            The crucial point is that wild-type, virulent chickenpox virus is many thousands of times more likely to result in one of these complications that is the weakened, attenuated vaccine virus.

          • Mercola?

            Sure, let’s tale a look..

            The Earthing Universal Mat and the Grounded Standing Floor Mat

            What do you think, Elizabeth Alice Haywood?

            Should I opt for the Earthing Universal Mat for $59.99? Or, the Grounded Standing Floor Mat for $109.00?

            Bearing in mind that I don’t want to spend all of my money in one place, so to speak. As I still need some money left for Mercola’s Supplements, Proteins, Food & Drinks, Personal Care products, Home & Garden and Fitness products.

            Oh, and something for my Pets and Kids, of course.

            … …

            Some Books and DVDs, too.

          • And the quacks you support give out prescription drugs like they were candy and hospitals charge as much as a $1.00 for a Qtip. At least Mercola sells items that won’t put you back in the hospital like most prescription drugs do. Just lookm at all the commercials put out there by lawyers their getting rich suing drug companies fro harming thousands of people.And look at all the quacks who push chemo when they won’t take it themselves.

          • Mercola? Cancer?

            Let’s take a look..

            “And he had a sales pitch to sweeten the deal. He claimed the tanning beds that he sold for between $1,200 and $4,000 from his Hoffman Estates based-business not only didn’t cause cancer, but also actively reduced the chances of getting it.

            There was only one problem with Mercola’s spiel, according to a Federal Trade Commission lawsuit: It was nonsense.”

            (Source: Chicago Tribune | “Accused by feds, sun bed-selling doctor settles for up to $5.3 million” )

          • Mercola said he only settled the case as “a business decision,” and
            stands by his claims that his tanning beds had cancer-fighting benefits
            and that Americans were suffering from what he called an “epidemic” of
            under-exposure to ultraviolet light, which he said could be treated by
            “moderate” sun bed use. Nice try Proponent of poisonous vaccines. Here one of your own:

            Multimillionaire doctor who plunged hundreds of patients into
            bankruptcy by falsely diagnosing cancer and giving them unnecessary
            chemo is jailed for 45 YEARS

            Dr Farid Fata gave 533 patients excessive and grueling cancer treatments
            He then billed insurance firms, scamming millions of dollars in the process
            Victims, some of whom did not actually have cancer, had health wrecked
            Sustained brittle bones and fried organs, with one losing both of his legs
            Some patients lost their homes and jobs, and were forced into bankruptcy
            On Friday, Fata broke down in court as he was imprisoned for 45 years
            50-year-old oncologist, from Detroit, Michigan, admitted: ‘I misused my
            talents and permitted this sin to enter me because of power and greed’
            Judge deemed multi-million-dollar scam ‘a horrific series of criminal acts’

          • Mercola said he only settled the case as “a business decision,” and stands by his claims that his tanning beds had cancer-fighting benefits

            Sadly Mercola’s opinion on the subject of what does or does not cause/fight cancer is only worth slightly less than what you would get if you asked a block of wood. 🙂

          • Hahaha, I give you an option to choose one, and you still can’t do it.
            It just goes to show, you are completely useless at describing anything of substance.

            OK, let’s start with brain cancer.

          • I give you an option to choose one

            More like you asked a vague question and I asked a clarifying question in response. That’s sort of how conversation works. Admittedly I’m only putting minimal effort into talking to you.

            let’s start with brain cancer.

            “brain cancer” is a location. I’m talking about the particular cancer, there are over 27 cancers which are located in the brain — depending on if you want to count grades or not.

            Not all of those cancers respond to the same treatment or respond equally well.

          • acoustic neuroma, is slow growing and almost never metastasizes. Good options for treatment include surgery and occasionally no treatment at all.

          • “Acoustic neuromas, also known as vestibular schwannomas, are defined as benign tumors arising from the Schwann cells of the vestibular portion of the eighth cranial nerve.”

            I see, you picked one that is defined as benign tumours.

            Pick another one.

          • ROFL. I can pick anything but the things I pick? This fits perfectly with my prior statements. Outside of the “doing nothing” Mercola has no valid advice. All of the herbs, tanning beds and diets that Mercola has wouldn’t help. Hence my statement that Mercola doesn’t have an opinion better than a block of wood. QED. 🙂


          • Translating your flim flam…
            In others words, I’m clueless.
            But I will disguise my lack of intelligence with circular prolix.

          • Nothing I’ve said is circular. If you disagree, please provide a formal syllogism…right…you don’t really know how to reason your position.

            Still it’s great to see how much you don’t like getting beaten by me.

          • but of course you can’t produce a syllogism showing any argument of mine to be circular…so this is what? Just something to make yourself feel better?

          • I’ll answer any question that’s cogent and reasonably well defined. If you can’t do that then I’m happy just responding to you like this. Talking with people, like yourself who don’t appear to know what they’re actually saying — as evidenced by their crippling inability to clarify their point — isn’t really my thing.

          • Only in the strange recesses of your mind do you think that.

            Vaccine papers asked you a specific question and you went into your hidey hole.

          • Vaccine papers asked you a specific question

            About errors, I gave VP a list. Then they wanted an example. I gave them one. Yawn. Let me know when you catch up. 🙂

          • Really, I think the pollution is getting to your prefrontal cortex, maybe you’re mistaken with some other discussion.

            If not, just repost here.

          • VP asked two different questions. One was for specific errors. I note that here and give a list. The other question later was about a specific example. VP asked

            What are the specific reasoning errors you have found in VP content?

            …and I responded with

            A rather obvious one is that you have problems interpreting studies. For example when you read Gadad et al you misunderstood the disease model.

          • The wilful ignorance is entirely yours, for everyone to see.
            You could simply repeat your so called answer, but because it didn’t exist in the first place, you certainly cannot back it up now.

          • “Still it’s great to see how much you don’t like getting beaten by me.”

            Oh, I missed that… no that’s impossible.

            A piss-ant America could never beat up on an Australian, we are made of sturdier stuff.

            See my Avatar.

          • Well you can’t seem to make formal logical syllogisms. So a definite weakness there (at least in you, I can’t speak for your country).

          • The only weakness that people see on the thread, is your complete lack of ability to answer simple questions.

          • The only weakness that people

            My aren’t we unjustifiably plural today? Your fantasies that you speak for more than yourself read rather like insecurity. Just sayin’

            is your complete lack of ability to answer simple questions.

            It’s interesting how often people want to pretend something they are asking is “simple” even when you show them many ways the question could be interpreted. It’s a pretty interesting phenomena.

          • You can nitpick my grammar all day, but my point stands, that you are an intellectual lightweight, that cannot answer simple questions regarding biology and disease processes.

            And as everyone can see, you’re coveting that inability with disingenuous nonsense.

          • You can nitpick my grammar all day

            Unless every word you typed in “The only weakness that people see on the thread” was accidental. I’m not pointing out a grammatical error. I’m just saying that your sentence misrepresents who you can reasonably speak for.

            but my point stands, that you are an intellectual lightweight,

            Meh, I’ve never asserted that I’m anything more than I am.

            that cannot answer simple questions

            …and yet I answer every question you post. Sometimes that answer is a clarifying question but that’s how it is when you’re speaking to someone who has difficultly being clear. You can see my point by the fact I thoroughly explain what the difficulty is and what makes the question unreasonable to answer as it.

            So what’s the evidence here? It would be hard for you to produce any example of a question I left unanswered. Yet it would be trivial for me to produce a good dozen places where you refused to clarify. So it sounds like you’re projecting here.

          • It’s not even our first week, and you’re sounding more and more desperate.

            Why do you continue with your nonsense, you’re not proving anything to anyone…except yourself.

          • It’s not even our first week, and you’re sounding more and more desperate.

            Oh? How so? I’m still just explaining to you my point and refuting yours. The reason I post in general is a combination of the insight it gives me to the human condition. People’s errors in reasoning and how they avoid the truth fascinates me..that and there are a number of pretty entertaining characters…like yourself for starters.

          • Do you get some perverse enjoyment about quoting me back at myself?

            Perhaps, but maybe is just another reason for you to avoid answering simple questions.

          • Do you get some perverse enjoyment about quoting me back at myself?

            I think it’s useful to keep things clear.

            Perhaps, but maybe is just another reason for you to avoid answering simple questions.

            So far, you can’t show a demonstrably cogent but simple question that I’ve avoided.

          • Oh, you don’t need to be cogent, any single cell organism can see that you are avoiding basic questions.

          • Of course I have…example? Your total lack of understanding regarding the philosophy in history of homoeopathy.
            And more generally, your complete avoidance when it comes to the inherent dangers of vaccines, other than your copy and paste statistical flim-flam.

          • “So far, you can’t show a demonstrably cogent but simple question that I’ve avoided.”

            You really are a deluded soul, living in an alternate universe, because I can name several now.

          • “The reason I post in general is a combination of the insight it gives me to the human condition.”

            What, with copy and paste so called statistical modelling?

          • It’s interesting that the person who is displaying their ignorance is you Clearly I understand what you’re asking. I just see no reason to further comply. Since you will just change the rules whenever you feel like it. Thanks for advertising that quality of yours so clearly. 🙂

            In any case, my example is right on the money. Mercola’s Advice == Block of Wood’s Advice. Right?

          • Once again, you’re coveting your complete lack of Intelligence with too much off-topic prolix

            Once again, how do you suggest medical science cures cancer?

          • LOL we’ve been through this. You say something exceptionally poorly defined like “cures cancer”.

            You can’t define “cure” usefully, you can’t even tell me if it’s a metric or not. Then you want to talk about cancer — since therapies and responses change depending on the cancer. It makes sense that this gets narrowed down but you try hard not to do this but eventually I’m told I’m allowed to pick any cancer. Then you tell me I’m not. 🙂

            My statement about Mercola is still spot-on. His advice is no better than asking a block of wood.

          • You seem enjoy wasting your time with many last words. Again, how does the medical profession cure modern disease?

          • Yay, you replaced a vague question with an even more vague one. If you can define “cure’ usefully – starting with if it’s a metric or not (and what I mean by a metric I’ve already defined) then you will be closer to getting an answer. Otherwise, you simply don’t seem to know what you’re asking.

          • It’s only vague, because you make make it vague, because anyone with a modicum of common sense would understand the question.

            And as I said, you can choose any disease you wish to discuss, not difficult is it.

          • It’s only vague, because you make make it vague

            No it’s more that you don’t understand enough about what you’re talking about. It’s like hearing a kid ask “When is Spain?” it’s a simple sentence but it’s not a cogent question.

            I’ve already given you a pretty clear explanation as to the vagueness of the term “cure”. So I’ve made my point there. Feel free to bumble around and pretend you don’t see it.

            And as I said, you can choose any disease you wish to discuss,

            It’s cute when you lie. I’ve already chosen a disease. It fully justified my statement in the thread and that apparently wasn’t on the invisible list of diseases that can be chosen. 🙂

          • I’ve now explained why your questions aren’t cogent — several times and now I’ve pointed out that just because a question is structurally simple doesn’t make it cogent. So I figure all this pomp of yours is deliberate ignorance then. Seems reasonable. Right?

          • “Seems reasonable. Right?”

            Yes, I agree, it would be reasonable for you to start making sense and proving your understanding of medicine biology.

          • I’ve already demonstrated everything I need to. To make the statements I’ve made. In every case you can’t produce a counter-argument. So thanks for that.

          • How can someone respond to you with the counterargument, when your argument is nothing more than fluff, smoke and flimflam?

          • Hey, I see you got bounced from Health WingNut News — congratulations! I’m waiting for them to get tired of dodging my questions.

          • I suspect they liked the clicks for the advertising revenue but then realised they were losing every argument and the OP was shown to be shoddy work that they are trying to plug the holes in the dyke and of course, making it even worse.

            Lol, I’m still laughing at Mike Stevens find that their ‘journalism’ prize was awarded by Wakefield.

          • Lol, I have received the accolade of being banned by the Nut. Too much asking for some facts apparently.

            I’ve seen such sites before but it was a useful reminder of how much mutual grooming they do without a shred of understanding the science or the concept of evidence.

          • Same here, they’ve got to keep their little bubble intact. That can’t be done with people asking questions and posting factual information.

          • Congrats.
            It gives an insight into the people who venture out from there convinced they are the only people with the Troof.

            The hypocrisy of saying they are banning trolls when the Nut and AutismDad stroke each other is roaringly laughable.

          • You BLOCKED the Dudd too? for shame, he is so entertaining with his stupid one liners and the equally hilarious Gish Gallops, nobody takes him seriously, I just wonder, how on Earth he gets through each day, boy it must be hard when you have a brain the size of a Pea.

          • You, too? I’ve been banned as well. I don’t understand why Disqus allows a mod like HNN to do what she’s been doing.

          • More to the point, it may be the actual site owner, herself.I’m not familiar with what rules govern disqus clients, but suspect that when she moved on from editing comments, to replacing them with ranty, baseless accusations (directed at the original commenters’ but using their now-highjacked ‘nyms), to explicitly encouraging her readers to harass a commenter, to harassing now-banned commenters with repeated replies (to which said commenters may not respond) and then turned up the volume to eleventy by issuing outright threats to dox users, sue them for supposed defamation, send camera crews to their houses, etc…. she may have finally crossed over a contractual line (if there is one). Some of these more egregious events have since been deleted by the “moderator”.She styles herself as internet-savvy, but cannot find the reply radio-key or use HTML (nor speelcheek). I’ll forgo assessment of her self-styled journalism, as the semi-literacy of the posts speaks for itself.The site owner (if different from the moderator(s)) has been in the past herself a victim of harassment and violation of privacy, per court records and contemporaneous media accounts. One would think that she would therefore (a) be aware of the existence of screenshots, and of the eternal nature of the internet’s memory, and (b) be less inclined to make threats.

          • Yeah, I think it is the site owner. But shouldn’t that be against general Disqus policy to be so blatantly dishonest?

          • What Mercola-hoe has done is actionable. It’s just a matter of whether anyone wants to bother doing anything about it. If she keeps it up, it might be worthy of sending to Ken at Popehat just so the bunch over there can make her look even worse.

          • Erin has stated previously that she runs the site alone and has no staff, and the writing style/behaviour are consistent throughout the comments on the account. So, more than likely, our speculations are correct.

            Disqus does not police individual sites’ moderators/moderation… within limits. Those limits may or may not be specified to a greater degree in site owner/client contracts than is spelled out in their general TOS. I doubt that blatant dishonesty qualifies, but one hopes that harassment and threats would at least raise an eyebrow or two.

          • I think you would have to convince Disqus that she was bringing the Disqus name into disrepute and reducing their income.

          • No, as I said before, Disqus has no interest regarding moderation, I have been told by them that each channel is run by a moderator or moderators and they run it according to their standards, if you do not like it don’t post there, that’s how it is.

          • She does seem rather unhinged, doesn’t she?

            If she does show up, I really hope she likes dogs, because they’re going to get all up close and personal with her and the camera crew. There’s something about 100 lbs. of German Shepherd running 30+ mph directly at a person that tends to scare them.

          • Yup. But if she’s “sending crews” to where Joe grows his pineapples, she’s going to be disappointed. 😀

          • She did quite quite a bit. But there are screencaps and the Wayback Machine, if that’s at all useful.

            You should see the page now. She’s taken confabulation right off the deep end, puir t’ing.

          • Thank you, I was unaware of Chad Hayes but just read his article on the sales pitches. I have no idea how he managed to sit through all of that. Breathing in microRNA, Aluminium from chem trails, Hg is in flu vaccines otherwise they wouldn’t work? The nonsense they spew out.

          • Listen, the steam ship “banned” is almost full, I don’t know if we can fit Shay in, no offence Shay, we love you but it is getting crowded here.

          • The drug companies you work for:

            These are the 50 most dangerous drugs on the market

          • You are so stupid you can’t even appreciate why IgA is irrelevant to “toxin” absorbtion following ingestion.

            Perhaps you think IgA interferes with your alcohol ingestion, Ron, and stops any reaching your bloodstream?

          • IgA antibodies are irrelevant to ingestion of some toxins but the next mode of detoxification, stomach acids, are not. Inject snake venom into yourself and I’ll drink twice that amount and we’ll see who survives. Nice try at defending drug companies Mickey.

          • “IgA antibodies are irrelevant to ingestion of some toxins”
            So why did you bother to raise them, Ron?
            Did they have a nice, “sciencey” feel about them that made you all warm and fuzzy inside, even though they are quite irrelevant?
            Tell me Ron, does stomach acid destroy alcohol?

          • Hi Mike,

            Thank for the correction. I should have used more precise language. What I of course meant is that the content of the vaccine ends up in the blood stream. That is how the different components and toxins end up in other parts of the body such as the brain.
            Ron Roy below explains it well for those having difficulties to understand.

            The trouble is of course that many people here are not listening to understand, but listening to argue. Mostly on symantics rather than focussing on the big picture.

            But nevertheless, thank you for the clarification!

          • Ron doesn’t explain it well, however.

            1. He constantly raises the straw man of orally ingested substances. That’s irrelevant. What is important is the amount of any substance that reaches the systemic circulation, irrespective of how it gets into the body.
            2. He, and you, presumably think it is necessary for a substance to get into the bloodstream to elicit an immune response. Not so. Following IM injection, considerable proportion of what is injected is taken up by lymphatics, and the primary immune response happens in the regional lymph nodes. This is before getting into the bloodstream.

            I hope that those with difficulties in comprehension, like Ron and others, will understand now.

          • The toxin in question is thimerosal, an organomercurial.
            It is 95% absorbed into the circulation following ingestion.
            Just so as you know, because your comment makes it seem that you think the body is somehow equipped to deal with it.

          • The nimrods who say drinking Mercury is the same thing as injecting it this are insulting you. They think you’re so stupid you don’t know there is a difference between ingesting a substance and injecting that substance. When you get that response, invite them for drinks. Offer to have a contest. You do 3 shots of Tequila and let them inject three shots of Tequila. See who walks out of the bar and who goes out on a stretcher.


            Nearly every single vaccine given to American children contains formaldehyde or formalin (which is formaldehyde in water). Many of the vaccines given to our children have formaldehyde as the first ingredient.

            As long as I’ve been researching and writing about vaccines, I have never seen a single study indicating that this has been shown to be safe. I’ve never seen a study indicating it’s even been tested.

            This is the link where you can find the vaccine manufacturer’s inserts.


            Pull up the ones that have formaldehyde in them and go to Section 13.1.

            “This vaccine has not been tested for carcinogenic or mutagenic potential, or for its potential to impair fertility.”

            What I HAVE heard repeatedly is this: “There is more formaldehyde in a pear than there is in vaccines.” Really? Please don’t accept this as a valid argument. The nimrods who say this are insulting you. They think you’re so stupid you don’t know there is a difference between ingesting a substance and injecting that substance. When you get that response, invite them for drinks. Offer to have a contest. You do 3 shots of Tequila and let them inject three shots of Tequila. See who walks out of the bar and who goes out on a stretcher.

            All this uproar about formaldehyde in flooring from China.

            Guess who is set to become the biggest vaccine maker in the world?


          • That’s a multi-dose vial for 10-20 doses, in which thimerosal is used to prevent microbial contamination when the vial is accessed repeatedly.

            There is no thimerosal in the single-dose presentation, which comprises nearly 80 percent of the market.

            It’s not present in any other routine childhood vaccine.

          • According to Head Vaccine Guru Paul Offit, aluminum and mercury act like nutrients in the body. That’s right folks, the go to guy actually thinks this.

          • Don’t just tell people who have citations they’re misinformed, show some evidence to the contrary with citations of your own

            AKA PROOF

          • There is Thimerosal in multi-dose flu shots given to children from the age of six months and to pregnant women. We obviously live in a mental asylum run by its worst inmates.

            Erwin Alber

          • “We obviously live in a mental asylum.”
            I wondered where you were posting from, Erwin.
            Don’t they restrict inmates’ access to the internet any more?

          • Causing apoptosis in a tumour cell line would be a beneficial thing, no?
            …Perhaps we should campaign to bring back thimerosal in vaccines to prevent brain tumours?

          • Do you have an explanation for the excessive doses of thimerosal used in this study, which are unrepresentative of the situation in vaccinations?

          • Can you explain why this article is written by a doctor who has had his license to practice pulled?
            Do you understand why VAERS is unsiutable for epidemiological analysis, and that they specifically tell researchers it is quite unsuitable? Can you explain why this ex-doctor decided to produce an invalid study?

          • What is the function of mu opiod receptors, Elizabeth, and how is this comparable to the situation in human infants? Please explain, so we can all learn.

          • Can you please clarify and compare the doses given to those that would be found in humans fetuses/infants, even if TCVs were used in pregnancy?

          • Again, could you explain why doses used in this study were several magnitudes higher than a human infant would get in that time frame?

          • Typical Vaxhole-where’s any truth out of you? You are all bluster and no substance.

            Administration of thimerosal to infant rats increases overflow of glutamate and aspartate in the prefrontal cortex: protective role of dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate. Neurochem Res. 2012

          • I’m not asking her to paraphrase a statute. I’m asking her to explain “what does this mean”? Sort of like “What does e=mcSquared” mean?

          • What’s the going pay rate for a pro-vax paid troll?
            Is it by the hour or by the post?
            Where does one apply for the job?

          • Not removed ! it was determined to be too toxic to be allowed in vaccines but the law did not require it to be removed from product that was already manufactured and an additional number of years was allowed for distribution so that Pharma companies could reformulate.. Science agreed that it too toxic.. I found this information on the CDC site which I check because of your previous comments. Thank you for adding to you resources.

          • Irrelevant: Thimerosal is still in mult-dose vaccines,, apparently no longer allowed in the USA, according to Mike Stevens..

          • Have any idea the population of America Phydeux ? LoL !! Your delusional sir. Oh and just another ignorant sheep.

          • Indeed, the CDC is a truly reliable source of misinformation. There is NO insignificant amount of aluminium when INJECTING it directly into the blood stream. This is in no way the same as drinking it as you claim.
            Aluminium is a neurotoxin linked to brain damage such as found in Alzheimer and Autism patients. Did you know that recent research showed that children that died with autism had extremely high concentrations of Aluminium in their brains?

            Maybe science isn’t your thing, but this is interesting:

            “We have made the first measurements of aluminium in brain tissue in ASD and we have shown that the brain aluminium content is extraordinarily high. These are some of the highest values for aluminium in human brain tissue yet recorded and one has to question why, for example, the aluminium content of the occipital lobe of a 15 year old boy would be 8.74 (11.59) μg/g dry wt.?”

            As for those 7 billion. They are mostly like you. They never research anything, rarely ever think for themselves or question anything ‘authorities’ tell them and they blindly believe their governments and doctors. It is said, but the truth.

            Billoins of people smoking. They can’t be wrong. Must be healthy. Same logic.

            P.S.: My nephew got into coma after vaccination, my daughters best friend got a stroke and now has serious speech problems after a vaccine, her other best friend is vaccinated and constantly sick. Furtunately both mothers have seen the link and stopped vaccinating.

            Stop believing pharmaceutical propaganda and screwed logic. When you eat aluminium it is toxic but in that case the body has a natural defense mechanism to get rid of (some) some of the toxins. This is not possible if you bypass the natural lines of defense in the skin or stomach by directly injecting it into the blood stream.

            By the way, Al is only one of the many reasons why vaccines are so dangerous.

          • trace amounts of mercury remain.. aluminum is a neurotoxin.. please look past industry tobacco science and propaganda..

            New study: Massive Aluminum levels in Autism brains, is this the smoking gun for vaccines?

            “These are some of the highest values for aluminium in human brain tissue yet recorded.” — Professor Chris Exley of Keele University, discussing new findings of Aluminum levels in the brains of people with autism

          • Mercury ( thimerosal was not completely removed from vaccines: And this is what happens when the two are combined: ”Another important factor with regard to mercury on the mind, which officials
            at the CDC, FDA and the professors in the IOM do not consider, is
            synergistic toxicity – mercury’s enhanced effect when other poisons are
            present. A small dose of mercury that kills 1 in 100 rats and a dose of
            aluminum that will kill 1 in 100 rats, when combined have a striking
            effect: all the rats die. Doses of mercury that have a
            1 percent mortality will have a 100 percent mortality
            rate if some aluminum is there. Vaccines contain
            aluminum.” Mercury on the
            Mind by Donald W. Miller, Jr., MD

          • Thimerisol was removed from CHILDREN’S vaccines, not all vaccines. And since we are on the subject of children’s vaccines, I didn’t expect folks like you to be bringing in every vaccine known to man. Clearly I expected better than you could deliver.

            And those rat tests were done with different forms of mercury and aluminum than are used in vaccines. So while they achieve synergistic toxicity in lab tests with one pairing of molecules, that does not translate to the same behavior in a human body using completely different molecules with different bonding properties.

            And if these tests are SO conclusive, why haven’t they been enough to stop vaccines being made? It only took ONE scientist to prove lead in paints and gasoline were harmful. But you have hundreds of quacks spreading pseudo-science about vaccines they can’t prove. The autism “link” alone has been debunked a thousand different ways, but yet your anti-vaxx brethren refuse to accept it.

            The FIRST RULE of science is: Correlation does not mean causation.

            Just because high aluminum levels are found in those with Alzheimer’s doesn’t mean it caused the Alzheimer’s. It could very well be that Alzheimer’s causes the elevated levels of aluminum in the system. Or that they’re completely unrelated. No one knows definitively because they’ve never been able to establish a CAUSAL link.

          • According to Hugh Fudenberg, MD, the world’s leading immunogeneticist and
            13th most quoted biologist of our times (nearly 850 papers in peer review
            journals): If an individual has had 5 consecutive flu shots between 1970 and
            1980 (the years studied) his/her chances of getting Alzheimer’s Disease is 10
            times higher than if he/she had one, 2 or no shots. Dr. Fudenberg said it
            was so and that it was due to mercury and aluminum that is in every flu shot.
            The gradual mercury and aluminum buildup in the brain causes cognitive

            Flu shots contain 25 micrograms of mercury. One microgram is considered

          • world’s leading immunogeneticist

            Uh by whom? I mean it’s interesting that if you google the phrase “world’s leading immunogeneticist” the only hits you get are effectively that quote.

            One would think that the world’s leading immunogeneticist would have been called that more than once.

            (thanks for the entertainment)

          • At one time the 13th most read and quoted immunogeneticist in the world. And you Johnny what are your qualifications? Oh you’re an assistant teacher in a high school.

          • At one time the 13th most read and quoted immunogeneticist in the world.

            From the same source that made the claim that he was the “world’s leading immunogeniticst” an opinion echoed by nobody but people citing the same questionable source.

            Johnny what are your qualifications?

            I’m qualified to point out that these ordinal claims of superiority seem rather made-up.

            Oh you’re an assistant teacher in a high school.

            The only person I’ve schooled today is you.

            (thanks for the entertainment)

          • So…was he the world’s leading immunogeneticist or was he #13?

            And what is the foundation for your two contradictory claims?

          • Well if he said it was, then it MUST be true!

            No need for anyone else to replicate his study or publish reliability statistics, right? Why do science the right way when it’s easier to just assume he’s correct.

            And yes 1mcg of pure mercury is toxic, but this is NOT pure mercury they’re using. It’s a bonded molecule that won’t be absorbed into the system.

            Learn soms basic scientific principles and then make a knowledgeable argument.

          • Hugh Fudenberg is not the world’s leading immunogenetecist. For starters, he’s dead. Secondly, the fact that he produced hundreds and hundreds of papers is of little merit if they had no sound research foundation.

            The flu shot contains no mercury at all — most flu shots don’t even contain thimerosal, an organomercury compound. The flu shot also contains no aluminum-based adjuvants.

            This is something you find hard to grasp. Why?

        • Thank you for that TRUTH Joanna.
          I cant believe people would even consider getting the flu shot , that never works anyway. Stupid Sheep !!

        • “I had measles and mumps it was easier than taking 53 vaccines”

          Possibly. You were lucky not to get complications.
          Can I ask if you also had diphtheria, tetanus, rubella, pertussis, polio, smallpox, meningococcal meningitis, haemophilia meningitis, rotavirus, chickenpox, invasive pneumococcal disease too?

          How did you get on with those? Were they also easier than getting the vaccine?

          • I never got any of those. I am in my late seventies and I stayed petty healthy all my life.Only reason I got the m&m I was up for adoption in a children’s home and that went around to all the kids. I did find out I had a natural immunity to chickenpox. Basically most people don’t get all those illness you posted. I never had my children vacxed either and 2 of them are highly intelligent belong to the menses club all my children stayed very healthy maybe cause I breast feed. And we didn’t have the foods that are out today with all the pesticide and GMO’s. I have never had a VACCINE IN MY LIFE OF ANY KIND.

          • Maybe I am blessed but I am too old to be ignorant. Truth is I think I am talking to a few liberals like you and nobody survives that not even you!

          • Huh? I’m not sure I understand what you said. I’m a hard core conservative and no one is too old to be ignorant. Perhaps English is your second language? Ignorant just means you don’t know. It doesn’t mean you are stupid and it doesn’t mean that you are not wise. It just means that you do not know about this. I do; I’m a doctor. You are citing anecdotal evidence which is not science. Everyone is ignorant about something; no one is all-knowing. I’m ignorant about football… and I don’t care! LOL!

          • What about Cancer? Pretty much all of those Polio Vaccines were contaminated with a cancer virus that would manifest itself in 30 -50 years.


            Simian Virus 40 (SV40):
            A Cancer Causing Monkey Virus
            from FDA-Approved Vaccines

            Michael E. Horwin, M.A., J.D.*

            This article was originally published in the Albany Law Journal of Science & Technology, Volume 13, Number 3, 2003

            The Creation and Production of the Polio Vaccines

            In the 1950s, scientists like Doctors Jonas Salk and Albert Sabin had isolated the poliovirus strains to make vaccines.[1] Dr. Salk’s strains would be inactivated with formaldehyde and injected into children. Dr. Sabin’s strains would be attenuated or weakened by transferring or passaging[2] the live viruses through different host cells and then fed to children orally.

            Because his goal was to create a live attenuated vaccine, Dr. Sabin had to isolate the poliovirus strains and then passage the strains through a myriad of host cells in order to attain the right virulence—strong enough to illicit an immune response, but weak enough so as to not cause polio in the recipient. Sabin’s oral polio vaccine (OPV) is a trivalent vaccine and was, therefore, comprised of three types – Type I, II, and III. For example, Type I has the following lineage: In 1941, Drs. Francis and Mack isolated the Mahoney poliovirus “from the pooled feces of three healthy children in Cleveland.” [3] Dr. Salk then subjected the strain to passages through fourteen living monkeys and two cultures of monkey testicular cultures.[4] In 1954, the strain (now called Monk14 T2) was given to Drs. Li and Schaeffer who subjected the virus to nine more passages through monkey testicular cultures.[5] Next, the strain (now called Monk14 T11) underwent fifteen more passages in monkey testicular cultures, eighteen passages in monkey kidney cells, two passages through the skin of living rhesus monkeys, and additional passages through African Green monkey skin and monkey kidney cell cultures.[6] This strain was now called MS10 T43 or LS-c. In 1956, Dr. Sabin took this virus and passaged it through seven cultures of African Green Monkey kidney cells.[7] That same year, the pharmaceutical company, Merck, Sharp & Dohme, passed the strain (now called LS-c, 2ab/KP2) through a rhesus monkey kidney cell culture.[8] The resulting material was called Sabin Original Merck (SOM) and was provided to Lederle in 1960 as the seed material to manufacture its polio vaccine. Types II and III were created in a similar fashion.[9]

            Once their strains were isolated, pharmaceutical companies needed a method to propagate the viruses in order to produce the vast quantities of vaccine needed for nation-wide immunization campaigns. This required a substrate upon which the poliovirus could be efficiently grown and harvested. Kidney cells from rhesus monkeys were chosen because they were found to be an effective growth medium.[10] A small quantity of poliovirus could be added to the minced kidneys surgically removed from these monkeys and within a few days, large quantities of poliovirus could then be harvested from these same monkey cells.

            There was a problem, however, with using these monkey kidney cells to both create the original vaccine strains and grow the vaccine in large quantities. Monkeys contain simian viruses.[11] When the poliovirus was passaged through the monkeys or grown on the monkey kidney cells for production, extraneous viruses became part of the final poliovirus vaccine.[12] As early as 1953, Dr. Herald R. Cox, a scientist working at Lederle Laboratories, one of the polio vaccine manufacturers, published an article in a peer reviewed scientific journal in which he stated, “[P]oliomyelitis virus has so far been cultivated only in the tissues of certain susceptible species—namely, monkey or human tissues. Here again we would always be confronted with the potential danger of picking up other contaminating viruses or other microbic agents infectious for man.”[13] In fact, in 1958, a scientific journal reported that “the rate of isolation of new simian viruses (from monkey kidney cells) has continued unabated.”[14] Additionally, in 1960, the pharmaceutical company Merck & Co. wrote to the U.S. Surgeon General:

            Our scientific staff have emphasized to us that there are a number of serious scientific and technical problems that must be solved before we could engage in large-scale production of live poliovirus vaccine. Most important among these is the problem of extraneous contaminating simian viruses that may be extremely difficult to eliminate and which may be difficult if not impossible to detect at the present stage of the technology.[15]

            The Discovery of Simian Virus 40 (SV40)

            Between 1959 and 1960, Bernice Eddy, Ph.D., of the National Institute of Health (NIH) examined minced rhesus monkey kidney cells under a microscope.[16] These were the cells of the same species of monkeys used to create and produce the oral polio vaccine. Dr. Eddy discovered that the cells would die without any apparent cause. She then took suspensions of the cellular material from these kidney cell cultures and injected them into hamsters. Cancers grew in the hamsters.[17] Shortly thereafter, scientists at the pharmaceutical company Merck & Co. discovered what would later be determined to be the same virus identified by Eddy.[18] This virus was named Simian Virus 40 or SV40 because it was the 40th simian virus found in monkey kidney cells.

            In 1960, Doctors Benjamin Sweet and Maurice Hilleman, the Merck scientists who named the virus SV40, published their findings:

            Viruses are commonly carried by monkeys and may appear as contaminants in cell cultures of their tissues, especially the kidney . . . . The discovery of this new virus, the vacuolating agent, represents the detection for the first time of a hitherto “non-detectable” simian virus of monkey renal cultures and raises the important question of the existence of other such viruses . . . . As shown in this report, all 3 types of Sabin’s live poliovirus vaccine, now fed to millions of persons of all ages, were contaminated with vacuolating virus.[19]

            The vacuolating virus was another name for SV40.

            In 1962, Dr. Bernice Eddy published her findings in the journal produced by the Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology. She wrote:

            There is now an impressive list of oncogenic (cancer causing) viruses—the rabbit papilloma, polyoma, Rous sarcoma, the leukemia viruses . . . . It has been known for a number of years that monkeys harbor latent viruses . . . . The (SV40) virus was injected at once into 13 newborn hamsters and 10 newborn mice. Subcutaneous neoplasms indistinguishable from those induced by the rhesus monkey kidney extracts developed in 11 of the 13 hamsters between 156 and 380 days . . . .[20]

            Subsequent studies performed in the early 1960s demonstrated that SV40 caused brain tumors in animals[21] and that SV40 could transform or turn cancerous normal human tissue in vitro.[22] A disturbing experiment performed during this era also suggested that SV40 could cause human cancers in man in vivo.[23] In 1964, Fred Jensen and his colleagues took tissue from patients who were terminally ill with cancer.[24] They exposed the tissue to SV40 and then after it was transformed, they implanted the tissue back into the patient.[25] These implants grew into tumors in their human hosts.[26] This suggested the possibility that SV40 could cause cancers in man.


          • “There has never been a single vaccine in this country that has ever been submitted to a controlled scientific study.


            They never took a group of 100 people who were candidates for a vaccine, gave 50 of them a vaccine and left the other 50 alone, and measured the outcome. And since that has never been done, that means if you want to be kind, you will call vaccines an unproven remedy.

            If you want to be accurate, you’ll call the people who give vaccines quacks.”

            -Dr Robert S. Mendelsohn, MD

            Vaccine Damage News


          • I have always wondered why the doctors tell you to stay away from people that are not vaccinated. If you are vaccinated, then there shouldn’t be any worry right?? SMH. There is something not right there.

          • Vaccines aren’t 100% effective, and plenty of people cannot be vaccinated for reasons previously stated. That’s why.

            They need protection from the unvaccinated disease carriers (for example the unvaxed are 35 times more likely to get measles; 23 times more likely to get pertussis)

          • Vaccines aren’t 100% effective, and plenty of people cannot be vaccinated for reasons previously stated. That’s why.herd immunity is an impossibility.

          • Durrrr…. clunk clunk…
            You don’t need 100% immunity to provide herd immunity, Ron.
            50% is enough for flu, for example, and 80% for mumps.
            It’s dependent on the R0 of the pathogen.

            I tried to find a suitable source to explain it, treading the fine line between the need to cater for your ignorance, but not wishing to dumb-down the information too much in case more intelligent people also want to gain something from it.
            Here you go:

          • More and more people are

            …pretending that more and more people are joining your lot but were is the evidence of that?

          • Thank you Mike Stevens for the link to “simplified’ herd immunity post but the Sarcasm should be beneath you. You joined the Bully team all clicking like on each others posts. SAD..

          • That’s more like evidence that you failed math Ron. Herd immunity is simply the point where the effective R0 is < 1. Can you point out why 100% vaccination is necessary for this to be true? No? Then you really have no argument.

            Math Ron. The day you learn some, is just one less day you spend in abject ignorance.

          • There is a subset of people for whom the vaccines don’t “take”. It’s usually no more than a few percent, but if you’re one of them, you’ll get sick.

          • Have a good nourishing diet and take a few vitamin mineral supplements and you won’t have to worry about diseases. Oh and stay away from vaccines.

          • So the only reason that someone would tolerate your company — intellectually speaking — is if they were being paid?

            (thanks for the entertainment)

          • Yeah HIS purpose in his life is coming to these forums to spread misinformation, he has NO other life, this is it.

          • You should be held legally and financially responsible for the demonstrably incorrect garbage you post that results in harm to others (in other words everything you post). You are a menace to public health.

          • I would disagree — he’s not significant enough to be a menace to much of anything. Notice how he (to paraphrase Rooster Cogburn) pulls Facebook like a gun? Take him out of his echo chamber and he’s a laughingstock.

          • Reading that list it makes me think someone sat around at boardroom table thinking up little known diseases that they could create a vaccination for .. rather than a team of scientists developing vaccinations to solve an actual health problem. Either way they have now created a new problem.

          • ”I’m sure the scientists and public health specialists, that are in the pharmaceutical industries pockets, are not bothered by what you think” FTFY.

          • “…makes me think…”

            And that’s the problem – you attempted to do something you’re incapable of.

          • It is really sad, I joined this thread with a middle ground opinion. After listing to this lovely team of bullies, several of who are stated to be doctors.. Sad.. Yes, “THINK” why don’t you, before you write.
            … the problem is you guys look to be about 5 of you, are mainly spouting off your childish playground games.. Your attack on Ron Roy, is.. as FallsAngel said: “I seldom say this on here, but . . . that’s stupid.”

          • You are receiving derision because you parrot anti-vax tropes that are demonstrably incorrect.

            Start quoting facts and see what happens.

          • What JoeFarmer said. And saying this, as you did: “Reading that list it makes me think someone sat around at boardroom table thinking up little known diseases that they could create a vaccination for .. rather than a team of scientists developing vaccinations to solve an actual health problem. Either way they have now created a new stupid, and that’s what prompted my reply. You also said you thought 43 deaths from measles was bullsh*t.

            You don’t think 400 deaths per year from measles in the US was a problem? 20,000 cases of paralysis from polio? Etc?

          • 1) I have made NO comments on the deaths of any illnesses mentioned, In that you are simply mistaken perhaps thinking of someone else..
            2) AND from my experience “There IS a problem” and it is not stupid to be concerned, but of course JoeFarmer has a right to his opinion as we all do. In addition, I have seen how businesses sometimes create problems so they can solve them.
            3) RE: the problem is you guys look to be about 5 of you, are mainly spouting off your childish playground games.. Your up votes on buddies and attacks on those you do not agree with is.. as FallsAngel said: “I seldom say this on here, but . . . that’s stupid.”
            4) Re: “Upvote envy, too!” This is not a competition. For me it is a quest to learn from many differing opinions. There is always value to learning two sides of a conflict.
            – Unfortunately, I have found only a few here worth reading. No the less it has been valuable and quite entertaining but taken too much of my valuable time.

          • Why did you assume you had a “middle ground” opinion. All of your comments, from your very first, have been anti-vaccine conspiracies and nonsense.

            Why do antivaxxers lie so much?

          • But my LEANINGS toward Anti-vaccine is from personal experience, thus the search for truth. My comments include research from the CDC as well as readings and searches from a wide range of sources with bias in both directions.
            – I AM NOT ANTI-VACCINE, I AM ANTI-LARGE PHARMA making decisions for my life and for our country.
            – I know people personally who have children who certainly appear to have direct serious adverse reactions after vaccinations and watched my own child change mentally shortly after completion of first year schedule… And as petty as this may seem to you, my dog’s recent illness and ultimate death was clearly triggered immediately after her rabies vaccine update. With dogs the vaccination issue due to over-dose to smaller dogs.. FACT: Dogs are given the same rabies dose for a 100 lb dog as a 10 lb dog, Fact checked by asking Veterinarians and Vet assistants. .. Recipe for disaster. My dog went into adrenal failure, her diagnoses, too late to save her was Addison’s disease. Labeling everyone does not serve anyone. AND I have stated no lies.. turn back to yourself.

          • If you aren’t anti-vaccine, why do you promote FALSE information to vilify vaccination, and refuse to acknowledge it when proven wrong. Want examples?

          • Reference is to the “FACTs” of my personal opinion. So I can not provide references except my own opinion.
            I can tell you that in certain areas I am yet forming an opinion and others I am firm…
            I am seeking knowledge specifically about the long-term effects of the current protocol/schedule of vaccination given to BABIES… before age one. There seems to be NO research or studies on this.. there does SEEM to be a parallel increase of certain serious health problems in our (USA) youth that may be directly related to vaccination. Frightening to me is the HPV vaccination and the risk over value.
            … I have happily learned that at least here in the USA, we not longer use the formulas that included mercury and aluminum for most of our vaccines, unfortunately in the past we did.. I Continue learning. I will be reviewing more references and links from posters on these discussion which may temp be to reply.. but to me it is clear those who draw lines and hold fast and do not hold an open mind soon have little to contribute.

          • Reference is to the “FACTs” of my personal opinion. So I can not provide references except my own opinion. ”

            You stated that I was missing facts. So provide them. Now, if I was missing your opinion, that’s quite possible. But I don’t care how many people say x, I care if x is true or not.

            “I can tell you that in certain areas I am yet forming an opinion and others I am firm… ”

            That may or may not be fair, depending on how firm. I don’t hold any position so strongly that I’m not willing to change my mind – not even ones like 3+4 = 7.

            “I am seeking knowledge specifically about the long-term effects of the current protocol/schedule of vaccination given to BABIES… before age one. ” There seems to be NO research or studies on this.”

            Where are you looking? Also, there is no such thing as a long-term study on infants because of the nature of infants is that the longest you can study them for is 12 months. There are things like follow-up studies though.

            “. there does SEEM to be a parallel increase of certain serious health problems in our (USA) youth that may be directly related to vaccination. ”

            Such as? And correlation isn’t causation.


            “Frightening to me is the HPV vaccination and the risk over value. ”

            Can you give me a specific example?

            “… I have happily learned that at least here in the USA, we not longer use the formulas that included mercury and aluminum for most of our vaccines, unfortunately in the past we did.”

            Except that turns out not to be the case. Compounds are not elements.


            “I Continue learning. I will be reviewing more references and links from posters on these discussion which may temp be to reply.”

            Sounds good!

            but to me it is clear those who draw lines and hold fast and do not hold an open mind soon have little to contribute.

          • Is it without full knowledge of the facts or without full knowledge of your opinion? If the former, provide the facts I’m missing. If the latter, it doesn’t matter whether or not I have full knowledge of your opinion because it might align with reality or it might not.

          • There was NO fact stated to provide anything, you missed the whole point.. your earlier reply was to my personal opinion and I stated so. .. enough you have started to sound delirious.

          • Reading that list it makes me think someone sat around at boardroom table thinking up little known diseases

            If those diseases (diptheria, tetanus, rubella, pertussis, polio, smallpox, etc) are little known to you, you can thank vaccines.

          • None, I hope, although I know measles and chicken pox can be managed with natural means that does not have risks of dangerous side-effects.
            – I realize you should not easily be able read all my posts since I selected private but I am not anti-vaxx… I am am pro-natural health when appropriate.
            – I am very concerned about the number of vaccines currently are being given to our BABIES here in the USA. Given in too great a quantity, too early in life and these vaccines have NOT been tested in the manner and schedule that they are being given. They have generally only been individually tested. And I do see there seems to be a serious appearance of damage showing up over the years since the protocol has been .. some 50+ before a child reaches age one… There are really so many legitimate arguments against this schedule of risk to the child’s natural immune system. And for so little reason – natural, life-time immunity occurs when a child has these particular diseases while young and the bout with the illness is manageable. If you disagree, Ok. I agree to your right to disagree.

          • On what evidence do you base your belief? Because vaccines are tested, and they are tested against other vaccines.

            The appearance of serious damage is supported by what documentation?

            If you check the US pediatric vaccine schedule, no child received 50+ vaccines before age 1. What information do you have that says otherwise?

            Life-time immunity occurs when a child gets the disease, but why do you feel the disease is safer than the vaccine?

            I fear you have been misled.

          • “Because vaccines are tested, and they are tested against other vaccines.” Tested against other vaccines is not testing for safe use with multiple vaccines in one injection is that has not been tested.

            On the guidance of the links provided by several of you fine posters who are narrow in your support of vaccines given as they are right now, I followed more than one CDC link and then searched for more, read and saw the charts for the number of vaccines in the first year, found only testing of individual vaccines. If you can show a line to ANY testing of multiple vaccines in one injection I would very much like to read it. I then Located other government sites ( and the CDC and Lancet where allowed) where it was noted that there has been concern for over 40 years that the introduction of substances contained within the formulas of vaccines needed more study and were of potential harms.. I am not going to try to back this comment with citations.. anymore than you have backed your statements. AND and not being a professional “SCIENTIST” I take the right to use lay terminology today,.

            Here… just an interesting sections from Lancet.. .. it would be good if this century could avoid: “Tensions between improving public health on the one hand through attempts to prevent disease, and threatening the values of individual freedoms (and, in rare cases, the individual’s health) on the other hand, are not new. In the 19th century, for example, a series of parliamentary acts passed to enable compulsory smallpox vaccination in Britain and the USA were followed by rioting in the streets and saw the beginnings of the early anti-vaccination movement.” -read it yourself:

            You insult with no purpose but to boost your self.

          • ” I am not going to try to back this comment with citation” Of course you aren’t going to risk posting citations — the dubious validity of the anti-science position has been exposed here multiple times.

            “it would be good if this century could avoid: ” The medical community refuses to roll over and play dead in the face of your ignorance? Good.

            You have been misinformed.

          • To answer you. RE: “Life-time immunity occurs when a child gets the disease, but why do you feel the disease is safer than the vaccine?”
            First, that is why I have been following this discussion, to decide.
            Second, my own life experience. Myself and siblings are of the generation that went through most of the diseases in these discussions. For my family and friends in our school and neighborhood circle the Mumps, Measles and Chicken pox were handled with loving parental care with no need of professional medical interventions.
            – Despite the fact that I never had a known case of the Chicken pox. (I think it was Mike Stevens who pointed out that some illness may have gone unnoticed) As I stated in a pervious post, I developed natural immunity, presumably from my siblings, this was later verified with blood titer testing while I was pregnant with my second child and my first daughter was recovering from Chicken pox. Which now I realize was after she had been vaccinated. so go figure.. it did not prevent the disease in my own daughter, although it possibly, it may have helped her to have a mild case.

            This type of Narrow minded discussion from your team of Pro-vaxxers is fueling a fire, adding a problem of mistrust, of the medical profession as a whole but especially the status of vaccination formulas, safety testing and informed (educated) consent. Read the my pervious comment in reply to you question then follow the link to the discussion on the Lancet website.

            I have taken my time posting this in hopes that you and others knocking down all other opinions but your own might reopen your minds to seeking solutions rather than just bashing those who have seen questions because they are seeing a dangerous situation growing. Just knowing where to find official scientific data does not make you ALL KNOWING.

          • I note the irony of your deciding that you have enough information to make a decision based on personal anecdotes, rather than evidence based of decades of medical research by scientists from all over the world – and accusing others of narrow-mindedness.

            You certainly do have the right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.

          • Again. note the first statement in the comment you just replied to:
            -” First, that is why I have been following this discussion, to decide.”
            I answered your question, explained why I am questioning the current schedule of vaccinations and yet you ignore what I wrote and made up what you apparently want to argue about. Your bud up vote you for what I can not see..
            Thank you for allowing me my own opinion. Any research scientist knows that there is always more to be learned I wonder why you do not.

          • your comments are useless

            This from the person who can’t explain why she refuses to actually count the # of vaccines on the pediatric schedule instead of making numbers up.

          • So the “very reason there is a growing number of unreasonable “anti-vaxxers” is because you got caught lying?

          • “- You state, If you check the US pediatric vaccine schedule, no child received 50+ vaccines before age 1. What information do you have that says otherwise? ANSWER the CDC documentations.”

            Here is the CDC documentation:
            Count the number of routine vaccines given at 0, 1, 2, 4, 6 and 9 months.
            I’ll list them for you:
            Hep B x 3
            Rota x 2 or 3
            Diphtheria x 3
            Tetanus x 3
            Pertussis x 3
            HiB x 2 or 3
            Pneumo x 3
            Polio x 3
            Flu x 1
            That’s between 23 and 25 vaccines depending on the product given.
            How do you make it “50+” vaccines?


          • I appreciate this chart & count. Not sure it is exactly the same chart I located and printed to study but I expect is will provide the same info. ? I assume the x3 would mean 3 doses?

            I concede that my statement about 50 before 12 months is WRONG however the statement got some of the result I needed. The valuable one is this response from you. Thank you. And then there is the garbage so many others replied with.

            I also acknowledge I repeated information without first checking it to be fact. Sadly it seems to take EXTREMES to get attention to subject and that is what is happening in the world to day. On top of all these comments there is growing fear and mistrust the CDC and they are going to have to do something to Prove they are providing the best evidence for the medical community on this subject and many others.

            For now will learn exactly how many vaccine doses are given before 18 months rather than 12 as that looks to fit the schedule better more as it is given currently..

            What I can state correctly is that in 1983 there were dramatically less, looks to be about 10 diseases covered by age 14-16.. That increase concerns me, as does the change in number of severe reactions. I hope it concerns you also and if you find a need for correction you will help make it happen.

          • Thanks for admitting your error.

            “What I can state correctly is that in 1983 there were dramatically less, looks to be about 10 diseases covered by age 14-16.. That increase concerns me, as does the change in number of severe reactions. I hope it concerns you also and if you find a need for correction you will help make it happen.”

            The increase pleases me. It means fewer diseases that could harm my kids… they are better protected than kids were in 1983.
            There hasn’t been any change in the proportion of reactions; more vaccines means more reactions, but serious ones are so rare as to be massively overwhelmed by the benefits conferred by the vaccines.

          • Simple answer, there is currently the appearance that some vaccines or perhaps the volume of or schedule of vaccinations in children may be cause of harm that some will consider greater than the benefit. Simple.. it is a genuine concern. While we are rattling around in this conversation.. I noted from another conversation that Monsanto’s pesticides containing glyphosate may be one of possibly many causes… Time for seeking more answers. Hoping for unbiased studies and data reporting.

          • Well, the concern isn’t in the vaccinations, but rather that you get information from non-reliable sources. That’s why you’ve been so misinformed about the number of vaccines and the ingredients in them, you not knowing about all of the safety and efficacy studies performed, and your tendency to believe in debunked conspiracies.

            Looking at this topic factually and objectively, protecting people from infectious disease, with the large-scale studies of safety that goes along with them, is a very good thing.

          • Your argument, well stated. However, still YOUR opinion. In YOUR opinion the information you are getting is factual but if it has created with bias it could be primarily incorrect and non-reliable.

            Of course, I assume we all want to protect people from infectious disease and everyone wants to be assured that it is done in a safe and sane manner and that is should be done with education and informed consent. If the population distrusts the CDC, believing it to be presenting flawed studies and reporting with manipulated data all the science in the world will not keep people safe from disease. Think about it, posting data all day long will do nothing if it is not believed.

            Finally, you do not have the knowledge to say what I believe or that I am misinformed. You can only speak to what you know of yourself.

          • The CDC publishes its data and its sources, if you want to argue the data and the conclusions then go ahead. But that never happens, all we get is vague accusations and denial. It’s a neat tactic to avoid the facts but the poisoning of the well approach of antivaxxers will never reduce disease. Also bear in mind that the data and conclusions of the CDC are replicated all over the world.

          • Actually, I do have the information. Your own posts contradict one another. That’s one of the reasons we know you were misinformed.

            And what if you were right- that the CDC was corrupt and spitting out bad information? Well, the CDC is only one organization in only one country. There are literally hundreds of other organizations that study vaccines. When they all independently study the same topic and came to the same results, you know the results are valid. Independent replication is one of the foundations of scientific research. It’s the answer to the exact concern you mentioned.

          • Not the EXACT answer but a good start.
            -Food for thought, the United States and Australia have more vaccines in their schedules than most if not all other countries in the World. That leaves the question, Why do so many other countries chose a reduced number of vaccines in their protocol? Is there is some scientific disagreement. Is there a question that the data may not be concluding with “Independent replication” or some other scientific reason? Apparently within those hundreds of organizations that study vaccines there is clearly some debate or there would not be an anti-vaccine movement.

          • Food for thought- Most developed countries have nearly identical vaccine schedules: United States, Canada, Australia, Germany, England, Austria, Japan, Italy, France, Russia, and most all developed countries…

            The USA and Australia aren’t exceptions. Some anti-vaccine sources lie about this and try to convince people that other developed countries don’t vaccinate, but the vaccine schedules can all be found online.

            Minor differences in the countries exist due to the prevalence (or lack thereof) of certain diseases and socioeconomic factors. For example, Japan vaccinates for JE but the USA doesn’t.

          • Finally, you do not have the knowledge to say what I believe or that I am misinformed.

            If you believe, as you have stated, that a child gets 50+ vaccines in its first year, then yes…he does have the knowledge to say you’re misinformed.

          • If you took the time to read my reply to Mike Stevens you would know that what I replied after that statement… I acknowledge my error of repeating an incorrect number and that I appreciated his reply with useful information. Looks like you and your team enjoy the competition for up-votes more than gaining knowledge or sharing information.

          • Shay, I have do not have a stand on vaccination Pro or Con. Any debate requires opposing views to bring helpful discussion. My statements and Mike Stevens replies has helped to do that.

            My stand is I have a serious concerns about what is taking place around the world with many doctors making statements that differ so completely from orthodox convention. Some may are basing their questions from experience within their own practices and comparing notes with others. Some have done small research projects and shared information at conferences. I am concerned that families are scared.

            My personal goal is to be able to make an informed decision about the vaccination schedule and about each individual vaccination, not lumping them into one result. I believe most are safe but not sure if they all are. We need access to long-term scientific studies that answer the questions being presented by the anti-vaxx conflict. I need to know that the schedule and number of doses given within a relatively short period of time to infants is in the CHILD’S best interests weighing risk to benefit.

            There is a need for long-term scientific studies to ease the fear of those that are increasingly becoming afraid to allow any vaccinations for their children. It seems we need to consider holding back some for further scientific testing, unless it is out there already done then it needs to be published so families can make sound decisions.

          • You have access to long term research studies, and the concerns addressed by a tiny, tiny minority of practicing MDs have been addressed over and over by healthcare organizations and research facilities around the worl.. Sound scientific testing has been done, and it has been published, and you have been provided with links to some of this research already.

            Your perception is that there is a question. No amount of evidence is going to change that, is it? The old saying is true – you can’t reason someone out of a position that s/he was not reasoned into.

          • As of yet I have not seen or been guided to ANY long term research studies although I may have just now been indirectly guided to a science based website of value. The more you and some of your team of up-voters write, quote, copy paste the more it looks like you have an agenda other than facts. Sad.
            I am hoping this website will lead me to more useful information:


            “The Health and Medicine Division (HMD) is a division of the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine (the National Academies). The National Academies are private, nonprofit institutions that provide independent, objective analysis and advice to the nation and conduct other activities to solve complex problems and inform public policy decisions related to science, technology, and medicine. The Academies operate under an 1863 congressional charter to the National Academy of Sciences, signed by President Lincoln.”

          • So, you haven’t been guided to any long term research studies because you don’t believe the long term research studies you’ve been guided to.

            I can’t wait for you to find that your link leads to documents with statements like:

            The committee finds that evidence convincingly supports a causal relationship between some vaccines and some adverse events—such as MMR, varicella zoster, influenza, hepatitis B, meningococcal, and tetanus-containing vaccines linked to anaphylaxis. Additionally, evidence favors rejection of five vaccine-adverse event relationships, including MMR vaccine and autism and inactivated influenza vaccine and asthma episodes. However, for the majority of cases (135 vaccine-adverse event pairs), the evidence was inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship. Overall, the committee concludes that few health problems are caused by or clearly associated with vaccines.


          • Here’s another quote from the HMD.

            Upon reviewing stakeholder concerns and scientific
            literature regarding the entire childhood
            immunization schedule, the IOM committee finds
            no evidence that the schedule is unsafe. The committee’s
            review did not reveal an evidence base
            suggesting that the U.S. childhood immunization
            schedule is linked to autoimmune diseases,
            asthma, hypersensitivity, seizures, child developmental
            disorders, learning or developmental disorders,
            or attention deficit or disruptive disorders.

            Existing mechanisms to detect safety signals—including
            three major surveillance systems
            of FDA-approved products maintained by the
            CDC and a supplemental vaccine safety monitoring
            initiative by the FDA—provide further confidence
            that the current childhood immunization
            schedule is safe.


          • I attempted to understand exactly how many PPBs were included in the accepted schedule before the 12th month.. I am not sure I understood it perfectly but it the total was over what I understand to be considered safe if it were in one injection or in one exposure to any other products.

            You absolutely didn’t understand it as thimerosal has been removed from all childhood vaccines used on kids under 6. You also are clueless as to what PPB means.

            Noting that MMR is 3 vaccines in one injection etc. I will review those myself later to confirm or deny what I saw searching mercury.

            There is not, and never has been any thimerosal in the MMR vaccine. The thimerosal would kill the viruses!

            Plus (this for Sudanese) there never was any elemental mercury in any vaccine, ever!

            Mary, you have a lot to learn about chemistry and vaccines. Until then , do not post such nonsense.

          • So you’ve never bothered to get the exact number, but you know it’s too high.

            The rest of your post makes no more sense.

          • I had smallpox, chickenpox, mumps and measles, and so has every other person I know without having a single vaccine. We are all alive and healthy and I have NEVER heard of anybody dying from those ailments, because we used plain common sense when somebody was affected.

          • Smallpox killed more people than Genghis Khan, Stalin, Mao, Hitler, every terrorist act in human history, and every war in human history, combined. You are truly clueless.

          • I asked a couple of polite questions.
            Funny how you interpret that as “fear and attempted intimidation”.

            …Gosh, I must really scare the sh1t out of you poor little snowflakes…

          • Most people before the vaccines had gotten subclinical immunity or from mild cases to diphtheria, tetanus, rubella, pertussis, polio, smallpox, all the kinds of meningitis you mentioned, rotavirus, and chickenpox. As well as measles and mumps. Ánd HPV. And of course that was better than either the vaccines or serious cases of the diseases. So people need to consider the chance that their child would contract a dangerous case of the diseases which exist in their area at the time. You need to get as few vaccines as possible to try to avoid vaccine damage. I think you only need to seriously consider the DT series after two, the Hib series only for babies under 18 months in daycare, and the polio series only if it comes back in your area.

          • HPV is ubiquitous in the environment and by no means limited to sexual transmission. However, nearly everyone who is sexually active contracts it at some point, and well over 90% of them clear it within a year or two with no further problems.
            C has autism, if you’ll recall. Even if she were raped, God forbid, even if she were to contract HPV, the way everyone does, it is EXCEEDINGLY unlikely that she develop cervical cancer from it. I guess I’d get her a DNA test if I were afraid she might have contracted it and proceed from there based on whether she did or not.
            I would ask you to argue based on facts, difficult as I know that is for you to do. Name one disease that 15,000 a year might die of if no one vaxxed for it.
            And what I said is true. Most people DID get subclinical immunity to these diseases. However, in the case of a few of them, many people would prefer to take the vaccine than chance the disease. Really only tetanus. Diphtheria would be dangerous, but is no longer present. Breastfed babies are at very low risk of meningitis. Polio we’ll worry about if it comes back. Etc.

          • “Amusingly enough, it is DANGEROUS to get the HPV vaccine if a girl is one of the huge number who contracted HPV by a nonsexual vector, and it greatly INCREASES her risk of developing precancerous lesions if she gets the vaccine”

            Ah yes, Cia, the old antivaccine trope of “HPV vaccine increases the risk of precancerous lesions….”

            You would be referring to one of the subgroup analyses within the Gardasil trials (013), where in a small sample of women there was noted to be an increase in CIN2/3 grade lesions in the vaccinated group. The explanation was evident from a look at the demographics, which showed the women in the two groups to be different in terms of underlying risks for HPV, and indeed this finding was an artefact. The vaccine group were more likely to be smokers, have a history of STDs, and twice as many already had previous PAP smears with HSIL (high grade squamous intraepithelial lesions), indicating that they already had much higher likelihood of CIN2/3 lesions, and the vaccination was irrelevant. (You’d understand this I expect, as you are the one who always says cervical cancer only happens in promiscuous women who smoke!)

            It is always inadvisable to overinterpret subgroup analyses, particularly when they were this small. And although the vaccinated group had more CIN2/3 lesions, the difference was not statistically significant.

            In addition, other larger subgroup studies with Gardasil looking at the same outcomes contradict this finding, confirming that in the 013 subgroup study it was an artefact caused by these confounding variables.

            So, having again had another one of your claims proved to be wrong, what will you do?
            (1) Double down on your cognitive dissonance, and insist you are right?
            (2) Insist that the data analysis for the other studies was compromised, because someone must have bribed them?
            (3) Pretend that only the 013 study was valid?
            (4) Decide that statistical non-significance actually means significance?
            (5) All of the above?
            I’m going for #5 in your case Cia. You have used all of the above tactics previously…

            I got a million hits on the question, but I don’t have time to discuss it. I encourage anyone concerned about the MANY and SERIOUS dangers of the HPV vaccine, no longer offered in Japan for this reason, to read my link and then research it himself. I used Duckduckgo as my search engine, as Google has been corrupted, but it would probably yield results to if the question were phrased precisely enough.

          • “I’d ask you to argue based on facts”
            So why don’t you do that yourself, Cia?
            Citing an anti-Monsanto, anti-vaccine propaganda web site which contains no data, just disproven allegations, is not arguing with “facts”.

          • Hey, now. Just because she’s a tinfoil-hat-wearing, paranoid nutjob doesn’t mean somebody isn’t after her.

          • I used Duckduckgo as my search engine, as Google has the nasty habit of giving me results that contradict me been corrupted,


          • “Amusingly enough, it is DANGEROUS to get the HPV vaccine if a girl
            is one of the huge number who contracted HPV by a nonsexual vector, and
            it greatly INCREASES her risk of developing precancerous lesions if she
            gets the vaccine”

            If that were true, which it is likely not, as Mike explained, it would hardly be amusing. It’s outrageous that you think cancer is amusing. This is one time where you’ve shot yourself in the foot with your gift for hyperbole.

          • Diphtheria would be dangerous, but is no longer present. Breastfed
            babies are at very low risk of meningitis. Polio we’ll worry about if it
            comes back. Etc.

            And why do you think diphtheria is no longer present, cia? It’s because we vaccinate! You’ve been shown (though you’ve ignored it) many times that when the Soviet Union collapsed and vaccination efforts dropped, diphtheria came roaring back.

            Breastfed babies have lower risk for meningitis, but the two kids I know who got Hib meningitis pre-vaccine were both breast fed up to and including their hospitalization.

            “We’ll worry about polio if it comes back”, LOL! It’ll be too late then. If it comes back, it’ll roar through these unvaccinated kids, leaving lots of paralysis in its wake.

            You’re stupid, cia.

      • Every person that got the measles will never get it again, and without having to ‘boost’ the vaccine every year or 2. They are better off than the vaxxed.

        • Not every person will survive either.

          1 in 500 will die from measles.
          3 in 50 will have ear infections that can lead to hearing loss.
          3 in 500 will suffer seizures.
          1 in 1000 will contract encephalitis.

          However if you look at the numbers for the MMR vaccine side effects (page 6) in this document, you’ll see the numbers are so much lower as to be negligible.

          Encephalitis risk is 1 in 10^6.
          And seizure risk is down to 1 in 2000.

          So the risks are categorically outweighed by the enormous benefits and peace of mind the vaccines give. Not to mention the herd immunity it gives for those who can’t receive the vaccine.

          • What exactly is measles?

            Measles is a short-lived viral infection that begins with a fever that lasts for a couple of days, followed by a cough, runny nose and conjunctivitis (pink eye). A rash starts on the face, hairline and upper neck, spreads down the back and trunk, and extends to the extremities. After about 5 days, the rash fades.

            How dangerous is measles?

            Measles is a mild and harmless disease that leaves a stronger, healthier child in its wake; most adults today who were born before 1965 got measles and have lifelong immunity as a result. Serious problems from measles are very, very rare.


            This, by the way, was standard medical policy; measles was just a rite of passage. It changed when the measles vaccine came on the market in the 1960s. Suddenly this mild, beneficial rite of passage became a deadly disease.

            Some MDs still don’t buy the hype. As Jay Gordon, MD, former UCLA Medical Center pediatrician recently said:

            This measles outbreak does not pose a great risk to a healthy child and quite frankly I don’t think it poses any risk to a healthy child

            How deadly is measles compared to the measles shot?

            Dr. Anne Schuchat, director of CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, in an Associated Press interview in 2014 stated that there have been no measles deaths in the US since 2003.+

            However, the CDC’s National Vital Statistics Reports show 2 deaths associated with measles for 2009 and 2015.

            Now let’s look at this measles vaccine

            Another government reporting agency, The National Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS), reports 108 children died from the measles vaccine during a ten year period. But that may be a fraction of the real number because MDs often do not report vaccine injuries.

            Death certificates, usually filled out by MDs, very rarely mention vaccination as the cause of death. They may write encephalitis or brain inflammation rather than vaccination even though vaccines can cause brain inflammation) on the death certificate. We don’t know the real number of vaccine injuries and deaths. But they are most likely much greater than what VAERS reports due to underreporting.

            “Pediatricians continue to defend vaccination to the death. The question parents should be asking is, ‘Whose death?’” Robert Mendelsohn, MD


          • Lie.
            2004-2015 measles deaths:
            8, plus 20 SSPE deaths.

            Deaths due to measles vaccines: None verified. 108 reports to VAERS, which does not establish causation.

          • Ok, so above I posted the real stats on relative risk. 8 deaths over 11 years, you failed to provide a source for so I doubt the information is reliable, BUT …
            Wow. 8 deaths over 11 years!
            With a US population of 300 million that’s an astonishing
            1 in every 37,500,000
            That’s way scarier than 1 in 36 with autism ….
            I better go get my MMR pronto

          • Sorry, left off the link. Here it is:

            You have no documentation of 1 in 36 with autism, and anyway, vaccines, MMR or otherwise, don’t cause autism.

            I suggest you take an epidemiology course to understand how numbers work, too.

            You did not address that there are no deaths scientifically attributed to the MMR vaccine.

          • Yeah that data came from your buddies at the CDC. 1 in 36 children between the ages of 8 and 12 – 1 in 27 boys.
            Maybe you should take it up with them?

          • And since VEARS is the ONLY reporting system for adverse events, we have to rely on that information. During the same 2004-2015 period during which you claim 8 deaths due to measles, there were 70 deaths reported to VAERS. That’s almost 10x the deaths due to measles.
            Interestingly, our own HHS has said that less than 1% of actual adverse events are even reported … so that 70 could really be 7000.
            By the way, you didn’t provide any actual data on those 8 deaths. They likely had other health complications which weakened their ability to fight the infection, which is typically mild and used to be considered a rite of passage through childhood.
            Just ask your grandma. She’s upstairs cooking you dinner right now anyway, alive and kicking despite measles mumps chicken pox and gasp! the flu …

          • Lots of false information in this post.

            For example:
            1) VAERS isn’t the only reporting system. There’s also VSD and systems set up by other countries.
            2) VAERS reports don’t mean “caused by”. It says so on the very first page.
            3) Adverse events are under reported for MILD events. Serious events are overreported.
            4) Grandmas who died of measles as children don’t exist, so they don’t have grandchildren to tell you how great measles is.

          • Just a heads up Tia, I am a grandfather. So tell me Tia, if we stopped vaccination for measles, how many would die every year from measles?

          • Deaths from measles is so rare because measles is so rare, and measles is so rare because sensible people vaccinate.

          • Doctors are unwilling to report incidences. And when they have, in some cases they have had their licenses revoked. They are too busy with short quick medical visits and have to believe what the detail people tell them. There is no reporting system for doctors to report that can be taken seriously… We need reporting and follow up… this country does it so much better for automobile ownership. They investigate the reports that car owners make… No one is adequately investigating pharma damages.
            TIME to correct this. The CDC is failing in the area of pharmaceuticals.

          • Bare assertion fallacy:

            “This fallacy is often accompanied by a phrase such as “Trust me.” It might be considered a self-referential appeal to authority. A more rigorous and constrained discussion might allow you to ask “What is your evidence for that claim?” However, when bare assertions are constantly thrown out as red herrings, it may be best to abandon any hope of real dialogue.”

            … …

            And on the note of the latter point above.. have a blessed day, Mary S. 🙂

          • Wrong. According to CDC Wonder database, there have been zero deaths from MMR in last ten years and 49 deaths from measles and SSPE. VAERS is not valid data. CDC Wonder is.

          • The CDC is well known to hide true data and to promote fake data. CDC = Centers for Deception and Corruption. Anyone who trusts the CDC is in my opinion feeble-minded. Same goes for the FDA and the WHO which are all corrupt and evil.

            Erwin Alber

          • Pssst!
            CDC wonder is the online database search system FOR looking up VAERS data.
            They’re not separate.
            VAERS is the Reporting System.
            CDC wonder is the Search engine.

          • I think it’s time for you to retire from commenting on vaccines. I know you don’t realize it but your suffering from Alzheimers do to your having been injected with to many vaccines.